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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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NOT-ADVICE

I've decided this morning to return to the market but only through Friday this week (3 day positions). I'm also coming back with covered calls and cash secured puts - no spreads. My rationale on these types of positions is that I consider these to be highly manageable and that the outcomes will be desirable (no opening positions for $1 just because I want to open something).

My larger view of TSLA hasn't changed - I see hints today that the Elon poll is behind us, but they're only hints. In particular the uptick rule is going to make trading today somewhat artificial compared to recent behavior. The poll impact could easily be back with us tomorrow along with another big down day (in fact I'm sort of assuming that until proven otherwise).


In my return to the market I've opened cash secured puts at the 995 strike for this Friday. I consider these strikes to be in play this week but I am also confident that I can roll these down to 800 if needed, and I consider 700 to be firm support. I collect a $7 premium now and may be rolling for a few weeks before I earn it.

Naked puts are how I got into trouble back in Feb of this year, but what really got me into trouble was that I was chasing the share price upwards and then I didn't roll back down aggressively enough with the reversal. This time I'm closer to the middle or bottom of a trading range, and I'm more knowledgeable about rolling down if the shares keep going down. I won't be chasing the share price up nearly as aggressively as I did last time (something like an 820 put with shares at 850 early in the year; and then rolling for big credits 1 or 2 times instead of strike improvements).


I've also opened 1100 and 1150 strike covered calls for this Friday for about a $7 premium. My timing opening these was .. bad (but better on the 1150s!). My thinking is that time is short and that I can roll these upwards to the 1200 strike at least, and maybe even 1300, should that need arise. And from there taking assignment at those prices isn't onerous to me in the least. Heck - if I were ready to be assigned last week at 1200, then I'm also willing to be assigned at that strike this week (with a roll or 3). I'll probably be better off in fact to get some of these assigned, but I'm not really seeking that.


The net of these positions is that I've put myself into 995/1100 and 995/1150 short strangles. This is the type of strategy I was using last year into the first few months of this year, and its one that I like. Back then I called this my semi-perma strangle where my objective was to keep both sides of the strangle open nearly full time. The specific value I see in this sort of position is that one side is always winning and if I do it better this time around, then the other side is being managed effectively until the day that it can return to generating income. And sometimes both are winning because the share price is nicely tucked in between the put and call strikes.

I won't be attempting to keep both sides open continuously. Instead I'll bias towards taking early wins and opening positions into strength / closing positions into weakness (open puts on down days; close puts on up days).


Bigger picture is that I believe I've got a wider range of tools that I can make use of. I think that these high volatility times are better served (at least for me) with naked puts / covered calls making up short strangles. Also no margin at all.

The low IV times over the summer were very well served with the put spreads (very well served = most profitable months for me, ever).

I view these on a continuum and will be trying to be more dynamic about the particular type of trade that I choose each week. At the start of the year I couldn't have done this, mostly because I didn't have any experience with spreads.

Something I'll also be considering starting next week will be really wide spreads. Like $400 wide spreads on up to 1/2 share price spreads. The intent with these wide spreads would be to get a little bit of leverage into the puts where I've always made the best money (still no call spreads). My intent as always with the wide spreads is to create positions that behave like naked puts. If I were to do a $400 wide spread today instead of the naked puts, I could be doing 600/1000 put spreads for $7 - $0.03 :). Those will have effective rolls down to 800 with good rolls down to 900. Sort of like how a naked put would work, which is what I would be aiming for.
wait
1100 CC?
 
Close my BPS for this week to free up margin although it should be super safe, only open a few -780/580 BPS for next week
Do 1/3 1200cc ($2.5) for this week and 2/3 1200cc ($10-$14) for next week, do some -1300/1500 BCS ($4) for next week.

This has been a weird action yesterday and today, and like what adiggs suggested, tomorrow maybe on a completely different direction again...
 
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Closed my Iron Buttefly, in the end got a profit of about $106!

Here's how it went, approximately:
- opened BPS -1200/+1150 on 11/5, credit $33.70, stock was >1200
- sold BCS -1200/+1250 on 11/8 making this an Iron Butterfly, this was monday morning, stock was around 1180 and dropping. Additional credit $14.9.

So at that point I had collected $4866, and the fly had max loss of $5k. Now I bought to close both sides and ended up with profit of $106!

So this was a nice save, from a stock move that went completely against my original trade.

I think there's a few things to take from here: high IV, so credits were high. And thin spread, where reward / risk ratio is high.
I doubt similar save would work with a $200 wide spread.

Also rolling that $50 wide put spread probably would have been very hard to do too after it went fully ITM, at least if you want to roll for credit.. I looked if I could roll the whole iron fly out 1-2 weeks for a credit, keeping same strikes, but could not find such a roll.

This is intriguing, I think I'll keep a risky contract or two going on here from time to time.
 
I was going to do the same thing (close the sold leg, keep the bought leg), but the risk of a dead cat bounce or quick short term reversal before we continue downward kept me cautious. So, I instead rolled the entire BPS. 20x 900/950 11/12 flat rolled to 850/900 11/19. Now up 40% since the roll, but I intend to hold on to that BPS well in to next week.

And now I wait... never a dull day! Still waiting on all of these positions:
  • 50x 700/800 1100/1200 IC
  • 20x 840/890 1230/1280 IC
  • 30x 840/890 1320/1370 IC
  • 30x 830/880 BPS
  • 50x 840/890 BPS
  • 5x 910 naked put
Finally, the day that I'm convinced we consolidate gains rather than keep trending down I'll rip the bandaid off of 795 and 800 ccs through a flip roll. Likely will be to ATM 01/2024 naked puts. That will also be the point where I reposition myself between Leaps and Shares. I've also got some 1050 12/17 LCCs that I'm still waiting on decide what I do with those.

Rolled the 700/800 1100/1200 IC to next week 760/860 1140/1240 IC for a 6.5cr
 
I try to avoid "gambling" as much as possible. If you gamble and guess right, you make more money, and there lies the temptation. But guess wrong, and 😭. I personally would take this opportunity to move everything as far from the SP as I can to live to fight another day.
Thanks everyone for the ‘not advice’. I decided that rolling out now is probably for the best. So rolled out the -p1060 down to -p1010 or -p1020 still keeping the spread at a 100. The BPS with -p995/p795 - just rolled those out at same strikes but 2 weeks out. I believe that 1000 is the floor and once this volatility due to Elon selling settles down, the 995s should be OK. Also set GTC closing orders for all at 50% profit just in case we see a run up after it is known than Elon’s sale is done.

Traveling for rest of the week so safer not to have anything expiring this Friday. That was another reason to take the rolling out approach.
 
I BTC my ITM put spreads expiring this Friday in a panic right when we dropped to 900s. Terrible timing as that would've been OTM by now. We're now up which I'm very grateful for, as I was able to roll up another 11/12 put spread to next week. Still ITM BPS for 11/19 but I'm able to roll for a small debit that greatly outweighs the cost of these being exercised.

Edit: Also rolled my ITM BPS 11/19 up to 11/26 for a credit. At this point, I'm just rolling up what I can to buy myself more time for great news to come through,
 
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Does anybody see the benefit of rolling 11/19 ITM BPS to 11/26 ITM BPS?

I am aiming to have the opportunity to do this at no cost. Just not sure if it makes sense to do it now or next week. I imagine it would be best to do it now, under the assumption we have a huge spike up and the rest of the week is down or sideways.
 
Does anybody see the benefit of rolling 11/19 ITM BPS to 11/26 ITM BPS?

I am aiming to have the opportunity to do this at no cost. Just not sure if it makes sense to do it now or next week. I imagine it would be best to do it now, under the assumption we have a huge spike up and the rest of the week is down or sideways.
yesterday i moved my 11/12 IC to 11/26 and then closed the BCS, all for very juicy credits

i am sitting out this/next week

lesson learned: even positions initially opened at 18% OTM are not safe nowadays; can't just open them and walk away
 
Been away from this thread for a while and upon my return I noticed a lot of talk about these BPS trades. Decided to dip my toes into the strategy last week for this week (oy!) by doing 10x -1200p/1150p spread last Thursday for this Friday's expiry. Got about $15k in premiums with a max loss of about $35k. Cool.

Then also that day I decided to cliff dive feet first into the strategy with a 150x -975p/875p for this Friday's expiry that gave about $75.5k in premiums with significantly more downside risk. But at the time $975 seemed pretty far off and relatively safe.

Enter the tweet.

Monday seemed fine and that this was going to blow over. Yesterday was triage time.

For the 10x -1200p/1150p BPS the smart thing to do I'm thinking was to just let it run it's course since the downside is pretty limited. But instead I sold the long put on one of the downswings for $66.5k gain leaving the short put unprotected. Rolled that to next week and down to 1195 for $10k credit and am now thinking to keep rolling that one out and down each week till I can get rid of it. Have enough margin maintenance overhead to weather some more dippage should that occur.

The 150x -975p/875p I wanted to see what rolling would look like for this type of trade so setup a roll from this Friday to next week 11/19 keeping it at -975p/875p. Put in $9 credit for the roll not really expecting it to execute that high but it did. Which gave me another $135k in premiums for the roll. Pre-market had me a bit nervous this morning but if this price action holds then should be looking ok till next week...and roll if necessary.

I realize I took on additional risk with my decisions and am carefully monitoring my margin maintenance, but so far added about $300k to my cash position since Thursday learning this strategy.
 
yesterday i moved my 11/12 IC to 11/26 and then closed the BCS, all for very juicy credits

i am sitting out this/next week

lesson learned: even positions initially opened at 18% OTM are not safe nowadays; can't just open them and walk away
Thank you! I waited 30 minutes to roll my 20 x 11/19 ITM BPS 1090/1115 and paid for it. Rolled it up to 11/26 1125/1100 for $600 to buy time to avoid a huge loss. I'll pay for the time.
 
Does the news of Evergrande going bankrupt cause anyone concern? Especially those of us holding BPS?
I think that I don't know enough about that situation. It seems like it was in the news a lot for a week or so, but its faded away / disappeared recently.

Do you have any recent updates or thoughts about the situation? Any news / articles you've found particularly interesting to get up to speed on what's going on?
 
I think that I don't know enough about that situation. It seems like it was in the news a lot for a week or so, but its faded away / disappeared recently.

Do you have any recent updates or thoughts about the situation? Any news / articles you've found particularly interesting to get up to speed on what's going on?

They just defaulted on bonds due today. Here is a good summary:


"Importantly—and yet another reason why the world is paying attention—the Evergrande situation does pose a potentially systemic risk to the Chinese economy. With deep ties to financial institutions and working class consumers across China, a disorderly collapse would have far-reaching impacts (financially and emotionally).

China is caught in a very tough spot with no easy options. Act quickly with a bailout and be viewed as condoning the financial excess that led to the problem. Fail to act and allow the collapse to ripple through an entire economy that is just recovering from the COVID shocks of 2020/21."
 
From AP:


“As the worlds most indebted company, its default could lead to a great reset, or final meltdown of the global financial system”

Since they have now officially defaulted, these words catch my attention. I do, however, understand that there are many chicken littles running around, and therefore, I am asking others opinion of this developing situation. It seems to me that the last time there was threat if Evergrande defaulting, the whole market took a dump. Now that it has happened, will it dump more? I do believe that the Chinese government has said that they would step in as necessary. The VIX also spiked to 19.90 (although down a bit since) when this news broke. Thoughts?
 
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Doing nothing exciting compared to the creative work being done by many here, but I was very concerned last night and this morning about today being a repeat of yesterday since there was no news of Elon’s share sale. Since I had shares to sell within my transition plan to 50% shares and 50% LEAPs (latter rolled/purchased), and I wanted to protect some of these recent profits, I was tempted into placing a pre-market $990 stop order for x00 shares. Unfortunately, I got snagged by the morning dip, and was feeling like a real dummy when SP hit $1078 mid-morning as I was leaving the house. Didn’t feel quite as stupid at 2:30, now back to dummy. 🤦‍♂️

Should have followed the impulse to do the stop at $980 as I expected the $1000 testing to overshoot. Expensive insurance.