Interesting shift from calls to puts, consensus may be that 210-212 is where we close today? Pre-market shows some anxiousness, not good for the spread I rolled to next week, will close and end that if we dip down to 207 once more. Highest Call and Put are at $220 and $185, P:C ratio is near 1. GLTA!
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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House
- Thread starter adiggs
- Start date
I had 50 207.5CC for today. I ended up flip rolling 30 of them to 210 CSP for next week, and rolled 20 of them to 215CC for next week. I'm holding off on doing anything on the 212.5CC for today until later.
I don't trust this run up - at least how it pertains to next week.
Looking to Buy to open some puts $205 and sell $220 for next if I can get the right prices.
$220C - $4.50 Each
$205P - $2.5 Each
Basically a Collar which I love - but running the other way.
Will see if it hits.
I think we have a good chance of a pull back on Tuesday and I can close these out for a great gain.
This is pure speculation- do not listen to me please! I am due for a steam rolling and this could be it!
Edit - Chickened out - not opening anything for next week till Monday or later.
Looking to Buy to open some puts $205 and sell $220 for next if I can get the right prices.
$220C - $4.50 Each
$205P - $2.5 Each
Basically a Collar which I love - but running the other way.
Will see if it hits.
I think we have a good chance of a pull back on Tuesday and I can close these out for a great gain.
This is pure speculation- do not listen to me please! I am due for a steam rolling and this could be it!
Edit - Chickened out - not opening anything for next week till Monday or later.
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myt-e-s-l-a
Member
FYI Today's technicals
Trend Analysis
TSLA is showing strength within a longer-term bearish trend. Its MACD is above the signal line and shares are presently 6.8% above the 200-day moving average. However, that moving average is declining, implying that caution is still warranted. Comparative Relative Strength analysis shows that this issue is outperforming the S&P 500.Momentum
Momentum for TSLA is strongly bullish. The 14-period Slow Stochastic oscillator is above 80, the level which many analysts call overbought. This means that investors have been actively purchasing shares and driving the price higher.Volume
Volume, as measured using the On Balance Volume indicator (OBV), is rising and, therefore, bullish. This is because volume is greater on up periods than on down periods and implies that buyers are presently more active than sellers.Volatility
Bollinger Bands® use standard deviation of the closing price around a moving average to measure volatility. The Bollinger Bands® are presently wider than usual, as a result of greater than normal volatility that accompanied the recent price move. Events such as this may precede a pause or reversal in the near term trend.
I thought I'd ask here for guidance. I'm currently selling CC and using that as my only strategy. Mostly because of Norwegian tax law. I've got a nice chunk of shares that I might sell around $500 but in need of some income from my HODL shares I'm selling CC.
If my shares actually gets sold I need to pay 46% tax on my income and as the costbasis is around $3 for these shares, shares getting called away from me is a bad thing.
Currently I have 30 contracts with a strike of $190, Dec 2025 valued at $87 per contract. I don't have the cash to close them and I might be able to roll them to $220 but then I've emptied my coffers.
So the question is how worried should I be of them getting called away from me? I can wait another 6 months hoping for a temporary fall that will get these less in the money so I can afford to roll them up, or in august or so when the 2026 opens up I can roll them up and out.
What kind of percentage are we talking here? 0,001%, 1% or 25% ?
I've never really sat with ITM CCs before, always panicky rolled them away, but if the chances are very small I can wait this one out I think?
If my shares actually gets sold I need to pay 46% tax on my income and as the costbasis is around $3 for these shares, shares getting called away from me is a bad thing.
Currently I have 30 contracts with a strike of $190, Dec 2025 valued at $87 per contract. I don't have the cash to close them and I might be able to roll them to $220 but then I've emptied my coffers.
So the question is how worried should I be of them getting called away from me? I can wait another 6 months hoping for a temporary fall that will get these less in the money so I can afford to roll them up, or in august or so when the 2026 opens up I can roll them up and out.
What kind of percentage are we talking here? 0,001%, 1% or 25% ?
I've never really sat with ITM CCs before, always panicky rolled them away, but if the chances are very small I can wait this one out I think?
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chiller
Member
Some good news for you: The tax rate is "only" 37.8% on stock gains.
Your strategy depends on where you think the stock is going to trade.
Dec 2025 is so far out in time that the theta on those options is very small, so the price of those are mainly driven by delta.
You could offset that by selling some PUTs at the same expiry, but unless you use that money to buy back some (or all) of the sold calls it will not help that much if TSLA runs away much higher.
Perhaps a better way would be to slowly buy back those with proceeds from near term sold puts.
If you have enough uncovered shares, you can try to flip some of the dec 2025 calls closer in time by adding to it to try to have theta burn off the value. This could dig a deeper hole for you quickly if TSLA keeps on going up.
Pairing those two you can do something like this:
Buy back 1x DEC25 190C and sell 1x DEC23 280C and 280P. This should be about even, or even give you a small credit.
chiller
Member
Also note: having some sold ITM CCs is not as bad as the PUTs; Even July 2023 110C has some time value left.
Do calls get early exercised? I know it happens with puts, reported here often enough, but did anyone ever get their shares called early?
What price did you sell them for?
I closed some of my Leaps for some profit and sold a few shares. I think I am going to roll half of my CC's and let half go.
Yeah that's what I would like to know
These contracts have been rolled so many times both up and down, I have no idea what I have earned on them. Though sitting on max time and with a strike too low they are not going to earn my much money right now.
I've had shares called away, they had almost no time value left (were either DITM, or were expiring that Friday and I couldn't get to a computer in time). I've also had puts assigned to me, similiar deal, but even options that had a few cents of time-value left got assigned if they were ITM.
So based on that experience, I think you should be fine as long as there's a significant amount of extrinsic value left, which those options seem to have. Not sure how that will change in the next few months though.
I would try what chiller suggested if I was in your shoes.
I'm stuck with various 6/9 to 7/21 -c195-202.50 that are too DITM to roll at this point without giving away too much time and also going past Q2 ER.
Amazing how quickly I can go from being at peace with losing the shares to desperately trying to find a way to get them uncovered before the stock rockets back to 400. At this point, I'm just telling myself these are insurance to keep TSLA above 200 - if we never dip below that ever again it's money well spent.
Amazing how quickly I can go from being at peace with losing the shares to desperately trying to find a way to get them uncovered before the stock rockets back to 400. At this point, I'm just telling myself these are insurance to keep TSLA above 200 - if we never dip below that ever again it's money well spent.
I have same dilemma, only in the form of spread
for 6/9 -c210/+c220 . If I buy a c230, that brings delta to -3.83, would that imply that if price continues to climb, the bought call appreciation can eclipse the loss on the spread? Its pricey to do but about half of the loss if i had to exercise both sides of the spread if price is north of $220. Curious on thoughts.
for 6/9 -c210/+c220 . If I buy a c230, that brings delta to -3.83, would that imply that if price continues to climb, the bought call appreciation can eclipse the loss on the spread? Its pricey to do but about half of the loss if i had to exercise both sides of the spread if price is north of $220. Curious on thoughts.
SebastienBonny
Member
I would let them go and buy some (50%) shares back higher, 20 or 30 dollar is nothing if you’ll hold them long term. Sell puts with the other 50%. If we rocket higher you gain twice, should we go down you can maybe buy back 50% at a lower strike by getting the puts assigned.
myt-e-s-l-a
Member
Yeah that's what I would like to know
These contracts have been rolled so many times both up and down, I have no idea what I have earned on them. Though sitting on max time and with a strike too low they are not going to earn my much money right now.
The short answer is that some may get exercised and the assignment is done randomly by the OCC.
You can calculate your cost basis and profits by looking at your trade history (depends on your brokerage)
When is Options Assignment Less Likely?
Even though we cannot accurately predict when an option will be exercised, there are certain indicators traders can use. These indicators are easier to see when you learn to trade options and observe market trends.An assignment is less probable when an option is out-of-the-money. An option is out-of-the-money when the security is trading at a higher value in the market as compared to the strike price. It is rarely recommended to sell an option that is out-of-the-money. This is because if the strike price is lower than the market value, the option holder will make a loss on the contract. If the strike price is $30, and the market value is $20 and the holder exercises the call option, they will end up taking a loss since they are buying it at a higher price. As investors learn to trade options, they can better predict the time of assignment with greater accuracy.
Assignment
The holder of an American-style option contract can exercise the option at any time before expiration. Therefore, an option writer may be assigned an exercise notice on an open short option position at any time before expiration. If an option writer is short an option that expires in-the-money, they should expect assignment on that contract, though assignment is not guaranteed as some long in-the-money option holders may elect not to exercise in-the-money options. In fact, some option writers are assigned on short contracts when they expire exactly at-the-moneySelect to open or close help pop-up or even out-of-the moneySelect to open or close help pop-up . This occurrence is usually not predictable.To avoid assignment on a written option contract on a given day, the position must be closed out before that day's market close. Once assignment is received, an investor has no alternative but to fulfill assignment obligations per the terms of the contract.
There is generally no exercise or assignment activity on options that expire out-of-the-money. Owners usually let them expire with no value. Although this is not always the case as post-market underlying moves may lead to out-of-the-money options being exercised and in-the-money options not being exercised.
Actually, I think TSLA is on a run and we will never see the 100s again. However, I’ve been wrong before and don’t know which way we go from here. So, will just continue trying to scrape a few pennies from selling options and add to my share base when possible. Since January, most of my premiums have come from the CSP or BPS side, while the BCS or CC side has been a bust. Edit: Most earned premiums were from CCs the latter half of 2022 and I added a lot of shares during that period.So actually you're saying we might stay flat here
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Excellent! Now you can continue rolling and widening the spread each week, eventually increasing the chance of both sides expiring worthless.
STO $230CC for $2 next Friday. These are shares I got on a P185. I figure if it runs I can roll into monthly/quarterly the following week which may push it down.
The June 2 call 210 I sold for USD 650.
The call June 170 I sold for USD 4720 and bought back 3 call June 205 for USD 4800.
I have spent USD 126 on the original position. With these transactions I receive USD 570. Profit is USD 570-USD 126= USD 444
Position now:
-2 Call June 185
+3 Call June 205
I wonder if we will see a similar sell-off going into close like we saw on the 26th of May? That day was similar to today with Max Pain at $180 and TSLA sitting around $197 at 3pm. Then it dropped over $5 in the next 40 minutes before recovering to close at $193, a lot closer the the nominal ideal options close around $185.
I'm not particularly concerned whether anyone thinks this is caused by MM manipulation or natural market forces with delta hedging, broker options close out etc. The main point is it's happened before with major max pain over-runs and it will be interesting to watch and see if it happens again.
Today we're currently stuck around $216, max pain is $195 and the nominal ideal options close around $205-210. It will be interesting to see if we get a significant drop after 3pm. I'll be ready and watching.
I'm not particularly concerned whether anyone thinks this is caused by MM manipulation or natural market forces with delta hedging, broker options close out etc. The main point is it's happened before with major max pain over-runs and it will be interesting to watch and see if it happens again.
Today we're currently stuck around $216, max pain is $195 and the nominal ideal options close around $205-210. It will be interesting to see if we get a significant drop after 3pm. I'll be ready and watching.
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