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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House
- Thread starter adiggs
- Start date
Personally I would say the time for buying puts was before Xmas, but easy to say that in hindsight, although I did say to at the time as wellI normally sell calls for income and don’t have much experience buying puts. Though when I did recently they were easily profitable since we’re in a downtrend.
Due to the uncertainty and current sentiments I’m thinking of buying 10x +P180 6/21 (adding extra time so it doesn’t fade on me as we approach the target) @~$17.00, to buy some protection and exposure to gains from any large drops. Cut if we get back over $185-$190.
A couple of questions:
1) Is buying straight puts like this not advised? It’s $17k afterall.
2) Is there a better/cheaper way to get protection and exposure to similar gains from a huge drop?
I’d like to add that I’m very +delta heavy with longs, +C near and LEAPS, and -P that can suffer down to $150. No margin. Just possible maintenance call/assignment risk for the short calls if TSLA goes below $150
Thanks.
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Between then and now I did buy 100x July +p150 and have been selling against them quite profitably until this last week, well "selling against" isn't strictly true, all my puts are CSP, but it's nice to have the extra safety-net
Of course if you you buy them and the SP tanks then you'll feel very smug... another possibility it to sell some DITM calls, if you're really, really convinced it's going down - the plus of short calls is that you can roll them, long options are lost when the price goes against you
My personal plan from here is to get out of the 43x -p200's, and reposition to OTM puts against 50% of the long puts, but then if the SP really dumps, sell off the long puts and have the shorts flip to fully CSP - there comes a point where the long puts are no longer providing protection, but need to be cashed-in, likely if they go ITM I'll do it...
Ha ha, that's less than my paltry amount! Why do they keep referring to him a "TSLA bull"??
At least that drama-queen Ross Booger has something like 400k shares in their fund, he whines way too much too, but at least he has some skin in the game, rather than some nai-clipping
FFS Jim, what did you do?!How do you plan to get a dump to $175.01 in less than an hour?
TSLA usually gets stronger into the close, which is why @tivoboy made an easy bet and gets to keep a shoe
thenewguy1979
"The" Dog
Come on Max, before you drop that wallet to buy the 10K shares on a Friday let us know in advance so we can buy Long 0DTE Call.
Sorry for the flurry of posts, was at music rehearsal, just catching up...
What a mess, eh? What to do from here?? Sell all my longs? No, don't think that's a good idea, would book $700k realised losses if I did that, and then the SP would likely reverse, as it does...
No, my few TSLA (2200) have a long shelf-life, no problem, the real issue is the 60x Dec 2025 +c200's that I paid $120, to sell those now would be crazy. The main question to ask is would you by Dec 2025 +c200's at the current price, and the answer is yes, well actually you'd buy Jun 2026 +c200's for $7 extra, but you get the idea
So what to do? Well sell weeklies, of course, $1 per week from now until expiry reclaims most of the premium, $2 per week and there good long term profit there
Of course I will roll them to June 2026, but as that will realise the losses already, I'm going to stagger that over the next couple of years
And if the SP pops back up, I'll offload them - always keeping the 100x shitcalls available to squirm out of any sudden rallies, of course
I'm actually thinking to buy some more LEAPS with weekly call profits, I have 71x +c200's, which is very unappealing for my OCD, would be nice to round that up to 100, would that be crazy...? Maybe if it dumps hard, would be nice then to add a few, will dwell on it
What a mess, eh? What to do from here?? Sell all my longs? No, don't think that's a good idea, would book $700k realised losses if I did that, and then the SP would likely reverse, as it does...
No, my few TSLA (2200) have a long shelf-life, no problem, the real issue is the 60x Dec 2025 +c200's that I paid $120, to sell those now would be crazy. The main question to ask is would you by Dec 2025 +c200's at the current price, and the answer is yes, well actually you'd buy Jun 2026 +c200's for $7 extra, but you get the idea
So what to do? Well sell weeklies, of course, $1 per week from now until expiry reclaims most of the premium, $2 per week and there good long term profit there
Of course I will roll them to June 2026, but as that will realise the losses already, I'm going to stagger that over the next couple of years
And if the SP pops back up, I'll offload them - always keeping the 100x shitcalls available to squirm out of any sudden rallies, of course
I'm actually thinking to buy some more LEAPS with weekly call profits, I have 71x +c200's, which is very unappealing for my OCD, would be nice to round that up to 100, would that be crazy...? Maybe if it dumps hard, would be nice then to add a few, will dwell on it
The FFND ETF is small, but it is a small part of what Gary Black does. His main business is managing larger private stakes for clients. He provides reasoned analysis and shares what he hears from his clients, fund managers, and the company. If you read what he writes, he is clearly still a bull, but his expectations for growth are lowered because the company has been telling him and us to lower them since the 1Q call. I'm not here to carry water for him, but he's not an enemy. For anyone keeping up with fundamentals, he provides useful information.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but you can’t offset taxes with losses, right?
when I have losses like that (ok, I’ve never had losses like that) and i really think the stock is going to remain flat, DOWN or maybe just slightly up over the next 30 days, I BOOK THE LOSS and turn that into a carried asset going forward, and will re-enter that equity most likely at a LOWER price, or same price and yet I’ve turned that booked loss into an ASSET from a tax standpoint.
But, if in Belgium that policy doesn’t apply, well that’s a bummer.
Useful information such as: Elon should do this. Elon should do that. Tesla needs to do this immediately. Tesla should stop lowering prices. He is definitely a great armchair quarterback, I'll give his that.
Take a look at his "Catalyst list' from 12-24 months ago &let me know how many of those catalyst actually came to fruition.
Personally I would say the time for buying puts was before Xmas, but easy to say that in hindsight, although I did say to at the time as well
Between then and now I did buy 100x July +p150 and have been selling against them quite profitably until this last week, well "selling against" isn't strictly true, all my puts are CSP, but it's nice to have the extra safety-net
Of course if you you buy them and the SP tanks then you'll feel very smug... another possibility it to sell some DITM calls, if you're really, really convinced it's going down - the plus of short calls is that you can roll them, long options are lost when the price goes against you
My personal plan from here is to get out of the 43x -p200's, and reposition to OTM puts against 50% of the long puts, but then if the SP really dumps, sell off the long puts and have the shorts flip to fully CSP - there comes a point where the long puts are no longer providing protection, but need to be cashed-in, likely if they go ITM I'll do it...
Yes, I already sold my long puts I bought up at 220, they were expiring next week so I got as much gains as I could out of them on this drop.
I’m not convinced enough of a much larger selloff coming to take on new risks on shorts, as we’re down considerably at this point and the malaise *could* be priced in by now. But I want to be prepared with some options (pun intended) to put on if we do fall off a cliff for some reason.
I’m too +delta currently in my port which isn’t very healthy in this environment. I guess wait and see at this point.
Can you define turning it into a carried asset going forward? The loss would only work to offset gains this year and just $3k per year after. Is that what you meant?
That's actually a reflection on Tesla not Gary.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
AFAIK a realized cap loss can be used to offset gains in both this year, and future years, up to the total value of the loss--it carries forward fully until used.
You can only apply 3k of it against normal income each year though rather than cap gains.
ProfessorZoom
Member
2021: FSD OEM license FY2021
2022: FSD OEM license FY2022
2023: FSD OEM license FY2023
2024: FSD OEM license FY2024
2025: FSD OEM license FY2025
2026: FSD OEM license FY2026
I'm still trying to figure out a good DTE when buying options, and I know that there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer by any stretch.
I'm finding that my success with buying options comes from buying the max dte options at what I consider a good price and waiting. So far I'm getting good exits in a month or less, but as long as I'm convicted about the 12 month window (buy 27 months out, look to close with 12+ months remaining, but anytime along the way is fine) - that is working pretty well.
Here at this 178ish price I'm looking for the share price to be a bit more down before I buy more of the June '26 300 strike calls (or maybe 250s - I definitely stick with the high volume strikes).
I've sold some of my 150 strike puts but still have most. I think I'd like to see a pop back towards 190 before I buy these again. My thinking is more down than up from here, but I'm only feeling enough conviction to hold onto what I've got - not enough to add.
I can answer that! I've got me some of that kind of asset.
If you had, as a hypothetical, a net capital loss of $500k in 2024, then you'll take $3k against the rest of your income on this year's taxes, and you'll have a $497k capital loss carried forward into next year. When you have a net capital gain next year of $600k, then that tax asset will cover the first $497k and you'll be left paying taxes on the $103k.
It sucks as deals go, but its better than nothing. It sucks in 2 dimensions that I've discovered so far.
The first is using offsetting long term capital gains with short term losses. Those long term capital gains would have been at a lower tax rate, but the short term losses knocks them down to 0. Zero is better than nothing, but 25% (or whatever the LTCG rate is) is better than the 50% (fed + my state) rate for short term gains.
The second is timing. One could, as a hypothetical, earn $1M one year and pay like $400k in taxes (big round number, thumb to the wind to show direction) and then lose $1M the next year. That's +600k net in that first year. Then you lose $1M the next year, and you are $400k worse off after 2 years because of that tax bill, despite the gains and losses netting out. But hey - you do have a $1M tax asset now!
Then in year 3 you have a $100k profit to pay taxes on. $100k capital gain will pay almost nothing in taxes (lets say 10%). You save $10k on the latest gain, but payed 50% on an earlier gain - you get something back, but you're still down overall (by a lot) on the taxes side.
On the plus side, in my hypothetical example, after losing the $1M, if you start showing $200k/year gains, then you've got 5 years before you'll have a tax bill again! Though you'd never pay anywhere close to $400k in taxes at $200k/year for the same $1M in gains.
Hopefully that made sense.
While I was still earning a paycheck, I never understood the difference between normal (paycheck) income and capital gains. It matters in other areas - you can only contribute to IRAs using normal income, not capital gains / investment income. Makes sense when I think about it some - makes me glad that I haven't been able to make any IRA contributions for a few years
And exactly this - the realized cap losses will be used up over time offsetting future cap gains.
Thank you! Is this a moot point for those of us with a broker that automatically makes cost basis adjustments so the loss is built into the shares (if repurchased) and taken against gains in the coming years?
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