Serious security issue with phone as a key

[bradhs]

I left my key in our BMW 7 series, my wife locked the door with her key a few minutes later. I went back to the car and tried to unlock it only to realize my key was inside the car. The car would not unlock for me. I think if you actively try and LOCK the car then the car will temporarily invalidate/block any "key" that is in range and does not leave range of the car while the doors are locked.

Try it.

 

[Need]

I just verified that in my S, if I leave a fob in the car, I can lock the car (or let it lock itself after a delay). Then to unlock it, I just press on the handle and they will present. The behavior is the same.

There is one difference. If you leave one keyfob in the car and lock the car with another keyfob, the door will stay locked. When my MX was first delivered, they could not locate the 2nd keyfob, so I drove home with 1 keyfob. When I got home, if I walk away the car will lock, but anyone walk up could just press the handle and door will open. I tried locking with phone app. Same thing. But if I lock with keyfob, it will hold. Then 2 days later, I found the 2nd keyfob inside the car under the passenger seat.

 

[Carnook]

It should work off Apple Watch, not the phone. Problem solved.

 

[Lem89]

Not totally sure about this one. In the olden days, you'd have a key which would go into the steering column. If left in there when the driver's door was opened, the car would chime. There's no way for the Model 3 to have a "you forgot your keys" chime, because it would just do that every time you opened the door since it has no way of knowing if your phone is in your pocket or somewhere in the vehicle and about to be left behind.

My keyless Nissan Leaf would chime if I left the fob anywhere inside the car.

What it seems happening is this. When you try to open the door while the car is still locked, it will actively look out if a bluetooth key is in range. And since it is in the car, it is in range, and the car unlocks itself.

I forget my phone in my car all the time so this is good to know. Is there a setting to disable auto phone unlock? Seems that would be one solution where I'd actually need to press unlock on my phone.

 

[Need]

Also you should be aware that if you always take your phone with you but your spouse usually leave her purse (with her phone paired with the car inside the purse) in the car, you could have the same problem too. It is less of a problem with M3, but much bigger problem on the MX with self presenting door. If you leave one keyfob inside the car, anyone walk passed the driver side door will trigger the self presenting door. There was a couple of time we went back to the car and the driver side door was opened. Luckily her purse was still inside and it seems like no one noticed the door was open or thought someone was inside.

 

[206er]

There are dozens or even hundreds of possible scenarios where the phone key will be more problematic than a fob. I can't believe a fob isn't even an option and the phone key is mandated, while being clearly unreliable. And the key card is just a frustrating bandaid. #bringbackthefob

Elon probably assumed that no one would care.

 

[diamond.g]

Elon probably assumed that no one would care.

It is also possible that during design they probably thought the Tesla Network would be closer to ready (along with Level 4 AutoPilot) than it is.

 

[Devanish]

This whole phone key / key card thing is a dumb idea. A plain old key fob is simpler and more reliable. Tesla is trying to improve something that doesn't need improved.

I'm sure it saves them a lot of money not having to produce 800,000+ keyfobs (2 for every reservation holder).

 

[slipnslider]

I'm sure it saves them a lot of money not having to produce 800,000+ keyfobs (2 for every reservation holder).

You could do a lot of things to save money when designing a car. You should avoid the choices that also make ownership more frustrating.

 

[slipnslider]

Been using phone as key for a month. Works great. Keep the black card in my wallet for emergencies. Nice not to have a ring of keys in your pocket.

How many keys did your old car require?

 

[diamond.g]

I'm sure it saves them a lot of money not having to produce 800,000+ keyfobs (2 for every reservation holder).

Did they include the usual fob transmitter/receiver in the 3 at all? Or is it only a RFID and BT module in each car. BTLE fobs can't be that cheap already are they?

 

[Sandiegodoug]

How many keys did your old car require?

I have 3 other ice cars on my ring
Since I only drive 3 around now, only take ring when using my tundra , Wrangler or motorhome

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Did they include the usual fob transmitter/receiver in the 3 at all? Or is it only a RFID and BT module in each car. BTLE fobs can't be that cheap already are they?

No fob
Only credit card like thing and bt

 

[diamond.g]

No fob
Only credit card like thing and bt

Right, but I am taking about the hardware in the 3 to even add one later. If it only uses RFID and BTLE then the next question is how cheap are BTLE devices.

 

[PoitNarf]

The newer S and X fobs are already BTLE: Tesla starts shipping new key fob with Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE)

 

[Daniel in SD]

I don't see how having a bluetooth LE key fob would be any better than a phone except for people without phones. You would be just as likely to leave it in the car.

 

[diamond.g]

The newer S and X fobs are already BTLE: Tesla starts shipping new key fob with Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE)

Are the new fobs only BTLE or does it include the legacy 315 MHz part?

 

[jsrawa]

Your phone/iPad is your key now, treat it as such and there will be no problems. IMHO this is a non-issue.

 

[Zaphod]

The person renting you the car should have just given you the keycard instead of accessing his account. While more inconvenient for the renter to use the card, seems that would totally avoid this whole situation. I would never want to give some stranger my access to my account.

 

[Skidmark]

I just verified that in my S, if I leave a fob in the car, I can lock the car (or let it lock itself after a delay). Then to unlock it, I just press on the handle and they will present. The behavior is the same.

This behavior must have changed at some point. My wife left her fob in the Model S once very soon after getting it in 2016. When the handles retracted, they would not present again after pressing them inward. It also just so happened that at that same time, our Xfinity Internet was down (car connected to our WiFi), so she couldn't connect to the car with the phone app - she wasn't in a rush to go anywhere and just left it until the Internet came back up since she didn't want to deal with hunting for the wifi router and unplugging it.