SF Bay Area to L.A., long range model required?

[CameronB]

you don’t get the alerts/threats of idle fees if the Superchargers aren’t busy!

Here is an example. This was on a return trip on I-5 at Harris Ranch earlier this month. It’s (early) dinner time here - about 5:30pm when I arrived. 18 or 20 stalls and NO other Tesla’s. When I got out about an hour (and change) or so later (around 6:40) there was me and 2 other Tesla’s. 3 out of 18 or 20 stalls utilized. So...no warning of impending idle fees for this visit.

 

[T34ME]

I'm confused why your duration is so long. Using the same parameters for SR I get 6:47 on the trip planner site...65mph, 100% depart charge, arrival charge 15% for charger and goal. Fremont to L.A. Civic center. 9 hours seem way too long (I do it in under 5hrs in my 3 series lol).

Thanks for pointing this out, now I'm confused too! I swear I entered accurate parameters in ABRP the first time, but now when I enter them in a second time, I'm getting different results, similar to yours. So I am revising my spreadsheet thus:

SR battery @ 65mph
number of stops = 2
total time at SC = 37min.
total cost to charge = $6.32
total duration = 6:26

LR battery @ 65mph
number of stops = 1
total time at SC = 11min
total cost to charge = $3.06
total duration = 5:55

SR battery @ 75mph
number of stops = 3
total time at SC = 61min
total cost to charge = $11.39
total duration = 6:38

LR battery @ 75mph
number of stops = 2
total time at SC = 33min
total cost to charge = $8.15
total duration = 6:06

In conclusion, ABRP has some glitches in it because it shows a different total miles (varies about 10 miles) for the different scenarios. But the results are somewhat similar - if you slow from 75 to 65 in an EV, you will get to your destination slightly faster because you will spend less time at a SC, even with fewer stops.

I would expect you will get to your destination faster in an ICE Bummer going at the same speed, but you need to factor in time at a gas station at the end of your trip, damage to your health from breathing polluted air, and the significantly higher cost of fuel. If you drive at >80/85mph then anything is possible in terms of time duration.

 

[ölbrenner]

I used 200 Wh/mi @ 65mph and 255 Wh/mi @ 75mph. The results surprised me..

Based on our previous exchange, and the new EPA document making the rounds, may want to revisit your Wh/mi values (given that you are using them to make/justify a purchase towards the SR). It appears 200 Wh/mi will be at about 50mph.

Try running abetterdtripplanner at the default 255Wh/mi@65mph and with reference speed @93%, and then again at the default 255Wh/mi with reference speed @107%, for what I think will be a more real world 65mph vs 75mph LA to SF run.

 

[T34ME]

Based on our previous exchange, and the new EPA document making the rounds, may want to revisit your Wh/mi values (given that you are using them to make/justify a purchase towards the SR). It appears 200 Wh/mi will be at about 50mph.

Try running abetterdtripplanner at the default 255Wh/mi@65mph and with reference speed @93%, and then again at the default 255Wh/mi with reference speed @107%, for what I think will be a more real world 65mph vs 75mph LA to SF run.

Here is the revised spreadsheet based on your parameters (which you could have done). The results are similar relative to each scenario. So your point is? I'm not trying to convince anyone to purchase a SR3. I'm just trying to give various scenarios for reservationists to make their own decision. People can enter any parameters they wish. I think most will make a decision on the battery depending on their budget, how often they travel on long trips, how fast they drive, and the climate in which they live.

SR battery @ 65mph
number of stops = 3
total time at SC = 54min.
total cost to charge = $10.02
total duration = 6:56

LR battery @ 65mph
number of stops = 2
total time at SC = 24min
total cost to charge = $6.75
total duration = 6:20

SR battery @ 75mph
number of stops = 4
total time at SC = 74min
total cost to charge = $12.89
total duration = 6:35

LR battery @ 75mph
number of stops = 2
total time at SC = 40min
total cost to charge = $9.60
total duration = 5:51

 

[ölbrenner]

@T34ME:
Enjoy that 200 Wh/mi @ 65mph ride.

 

[israndy]

Those are much more realistic times. I am curious what will change if you up it to 83 MPH. I have found over the years that CHP seems to set their radar to 85 MPH, blown right past them and then a few minutes later seen a Porsche go past me and soon followed by that cop. I always set my cruise control after leaving the house at 9 pm, usually in LA at 1 or 1:30 depending on how long I stop for. Very pleasant. Canna wait to do it with my Tesla.

-Randy

 

[T34ME]

@T34ME:
Enjoy that 200 Wh/mi @ 65mph ride.

Oh, I will! At my age, I want time to slow down, not speed up!

 

[smartypnz]

Yeah.... I believe 85 in a 65 is not a speeding ticket. It's a wreckless driving ticket. Insurance companies love you for that and local authorities get much more money.

 

[gregincal]

Yeah.... I believe 85 in a 65 is not a speeding ticket. It's a wreckless driving ticket. Insurance companies love you for that and local authorities get much more money.

Except the speed limit on I5 isn’t 65, it’s 70 (which is why it’s hard to imagine doing the whole drive 5 mph slower than the speed limit, no thanks).

 

[McRat]

Except the speed limit on I5 isn’t 65, it’s 70 (which is why it’s hard to imagine doing the whole drive 5 mph slower than the speed limit, no thanks).

Actually, there are 5 speed limits IIRC on the I5.
70 mph with no trailer outside urban areas.
65 mph DITTO urban.
60 mph urban sections near interchanges.
55 mph w/trailers or construction zones.
25? mph downhill on Tejon for trailers.

It is absolutely 200% possible to drive from San Diego to Oregon on the 5 at <=65 mph without impeding traffic, and in fact, you can get ticketed at 65 if you are dumb. Happens all the time, hundreds of times a day.

Then there is the fog, 2 semis passing slowly, looky-loos, snow on the pass, CHP, construction etc.

I remember a person who averaged 102 mph curb to curb from SoCal to San Jose including fuel stops and traffic and the Tejon Pass. Give that a try sometime.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Except the speed limit on I5 isn’t 65, it’s 70 (which is why it’s hard to imagine doing the whole drive 5 mph slower than the speed limit, no thanks).

Hard for me to imagine doing 15 mph over the speed limit, although the comment upthread about the poor condition of the right lane gives me pause — I've seen that elsewhere and don't much like it. I'm perfectly comfortable driving the speed limit, which is 75 or 80 in the states around here and is plenty fast enough. I find it more relaxing to pay no attention whatsoever to the highway patrol.

I don't really get the "driving 15 mph over the speed limit" thing. Why? If the speed limit was 85, would those folks drive at 100?

 

[israndy]

If there is no downside to 15 over and it turns the 5 hour drive into a 4 hour drive, why not? If 100 was comfortable again, why not? I used to watch for the cops when I was younger, but seem to have figured i5 out so I am not stressing when driving 80+ down the road and I am often getting passed at that speed. Tho not in my Sprinter, that is my 65 MPH RV, it gets 20 MPG at 65 but drops quickly from there.

-Randy

 

[DR61]

If there is no downside to 15 over and it turns the 5 hour drive into a 4 hour drive, why not? ...

-Randy

Because it is a waste of energy. You are getting a small decrease in time with a large increase in energy used.

 

[FlyingKiwi]

Because it is a waste of energy. You are getting a small decrease in time with a large increase in energy used.

And those time savings are more important to many of us.. Things to do, people to see.

 

[T34ME]

If there is no downside to 15 over and it turns the 5 hour drive into a 4 hour drive, why not? If 100 was comfortable again, why not?

The flaw in your logic is that you are thinking in terms of ICE. With an EV, you will spend more time recharging at a SuC when you speed at more than 65mph. The total duration of your trip is diminished little, if any, driving at 80/85mph. It is Aesop's classic tale of the tortoise and the hare. People keep demonstrating that they have no understanding of the current technology of EV.

 

[freeform1999]

I always go by the rule to drive 9 miles over the fwy speed limit (single digit) and to be sure there's always some car here & there passing me... the most certain way to go fast and not ever get a speeding ticket... on hwy 5 that means driving 79 mph which is plenty fast enough, I think 85 is really asking for trouble.

 

[smartypnz]

Difference between 85 mph and 80 mph on a 300 mile trip is 11 minutes.

(Of course you won't average 85 unless you go faster than that to make up for any short slowdowns - 1 minute at 40 mph means 1 minute at 123 mph)

I 5 - you will encounter the occasional truck blocking the left lane.

 

[ElecFan]

For all fastdrivers: fill in your trip in www.abetterrouteplanner.com and see how much time difference 10 MPH means. I was astonished to see that a higher speed could easily lead to longer triptime in EV's due to longer chargetime.

 

[T34ME]

For all fastdrivers: fill in your trip in www.abetterrouteplanner.com and see how much time difference 10 MPH means. I was astonished to see that a higher speed could easily lead to longer triptime in EV's due to longer chargetime.

Exactly, slower and steady wins the race with the current charging technology. However that will all change in the future when we have the ability to charge to 400 miles in under 15 minutes. Then the speed demons will win the day.

 

[DR61]

And those time savings are more important to many of us.. Things to do, people to see.

That is true, but Randy said "if there is no down side to 15 over...", and I pointed out that indeed there is a significant downside. And as T34ME pointed out, depending on trip specifics it may also take longer if longer charging stops are necessary.