The point is quite a few are now having regrets. Too bad but elections have consequences. And the EU appears to want to be rid of the whiners. The young will pay the cost of the elder stupidity.
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RobStark
Well-Known Member
The point is the BBC and the Times of London can selectively interview whomever they want to make XYZ appear to be whatever they want. Polls can be massaged and can tell untruths as did the polls predicting a Remain victory. Vote totals are objective.
Elders have lived in an independent UK and a UK that shares sovereignty with Brussels.
The Young are objectively ignorant and generally much more stupid. They don't have the life experience.
The young will reap the wisdom of their elders.
And today's young will grow in wisdom as they enter middle age.
Today's old voted to remain in the European Economic Community in 1975 as young people.
Now they have a different perspective.
In 1975 joining the EU offered more employment possibility; now that's disappearing with prospect of the divorce. Seems the same urge in youth of any age, but I'm so old I've probably forgotten.
Corporate renewable energy procurement survey insights
72% of corporations are "actively pursuing renewable procurements." On and offsite PPAs.
Solarcity is the #1 Commercial and industrial installer in the United States.
Tesla would be entering this rising and underserved market at #1.
PG&E to close Diablo Canyon nuclear plant, replace it with renewables, efficiency, storage
2.2gws nuclear power shutting down to be replaced with renewal power in Tesla and Solarcity's home turf, PG&E territory.
"It sets a date for the certain end of nuclear power in California and assures replacement with clean, safe, cost-competitive, renewable energy, energy efficiency and energy storage"
Another tailwind of a rising market Tesla's entering thru Solarcity aquisition.
72% of corporations are "actively pursuing renewable procurements." On and offsite PPAs.
Solarcity is the #1 Commercial and industrial installer in the United States.
Tesla would be entering this rising and underserved market at #1.
PG&E to close Diablo Canyon nuclear plant, replace it with renewables, efficiency, storage
2.2gws nuclear power shutting down to be replaced with renewal power in Tesla and Solarcity's home turf, PG&E territory.
"It sets a date for the certain end of nuclear power in California and assures replacement with clean, safe, cost-competitive, renewable energy, energy efficiency and energy storage"
Another tailwind of a rising market Tesla's entering thru Solarcity aquisition.
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Many Nazi and Communist parties and leaders were voted into power via democratic elections. Just because you have a vote it doesn't mean millions of people cannot be mislead. The one common theme among populists is that they know just the right thing to say to maximize votes and they don't give a damn about the havoc they reap. they thrive in chaos and anarchy. The reason some in the "leave" camp are already feeling cheated is because these populists are already walking back on some of the promises which were made to them (billions Pounds of former EU fees now to be spent on Healthcare, regions with heavy EU subsidies continuing to get the same money via the UK government).
While younger and older people tend to view things differently due to the stage of their lives, their desires and experience, you have to have a balance of these, neither trumps either. If only old people "voted" we would still be living in good old trusted caves. If only young people voted, we would have left the cave but may have been eaten by the first predator.
The real division in the Brexit vote was between people of lower and higher education and city vs. countryside. In any case this is a lose-lose situation. If Europe shows weakness (Merkel's way) and allows the UK (or by that time England?) to be an Associated Partner, separatist movements in other countries may strengthen. If they show force (France's and the German Foreign Minister's views) there will be negative short term consequences for both the UK and the EU, although the 27 countries will shake it off much quicker than the 1 country who lost 50-60% of its markets.
Bringing it back to TSLA... The UK sales may suffer in either case as people may be more reluctant to purchase big ticket items until they know how their financial situation may look in the next 5-10 years. This may hit Model 3 more than the more upscale S and X, but will have some effect on all cars. A weaker Pound will not help either. For Tesla it may be a good idea to start thinking about direct US to UK imports and not go through Tilburg for UK shipments.
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Would it be possible to show some restraint on the political dialogue re Brexit? It's a passionate issue and I am sure we all are itching to throw in our 2 cents too, but this is not the place for it. Thanks.
Perfectlogic
Member
It's not beside the point at all.
What you seem to be missing is that residential solar is competing directly with utility scale solar too. If Residential solar will always be twice the price of utility scale then it will never make economic sense. Problem is that while residential solar and batteries is falling in price the same price drops helps utility scale solar and utility scale batteries and it is unlikely that economies of scale will suddenly dissapear, especially when price trends do not suggest this, and they certainly doesn't.
Just look at SCTY's cost trend, even when disregarding the rise in cost last quarter the cost is only dropping like 6%/y, that is lower than the speed utility scale is cutting cost. Nothing suggests that the residential model will suddenly make up for this huge price difference.
I'm afraid not. Because it never really makes economic sense to install, with or without net metering. Net metering means that the utility acts as a free battery for the residential solar home owner. There would have to be implemented an artificially high compensation to the owner for the powerwall to make economic sense.
Perfectlogic
Member
Of course SCTY has an interest in trying to convince others that their product is great for everyone, but this is embarrasing, it makes no sense at all. I mean what is their point by that list of so called "net benefits"? 11.4 cents, what is this number supposed to represent, the cost structure of the utility I suppose? And then they boldly claim (without any reasoning or data) well our cost is only 9.8 so that means we can provide a net benefit of 1.6 cent/kwh. How do they expect to take on the entire cost structure themselves for only 9.8cents/kwh when their cost of electricity alone is at least that number? Do they expect to be subsidized by the utility forever?
So in the end when everyone has residential solar, the utility will only exist to pay for balancing the demand and supply and servicing the grid infrastructure, from which they will recieve no pay at all, but in some magical way they will benefit greatly from this huge cost and no income.
I hope you can help clear up some of those questions for me Foghat.
Perfectlogic
Member
So how again is the utility gaining by paying you retail price for power and selling that same power to another customer for the same price? Do I need to get into economics 101? While the utility still bears costs from residential solar home "customers" they don't earn any revenue, they are providing free service.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
Well this whole thing depends on how to view the utility company: as en entity with the primary purpose of providing electricity and grid services to society OR as a regular company with the purpose of generating profit for its owners. IMO it certainly shouldn't be viewed as the latter, considering their monopolistic position which is heavily supported by legislation in most places.
Gerardf
Active Member
Perfectlogic (and moderator)
Can I suggest this lenghty discussion about SCTY general econimics and solar residential and utility market to be moved to one of the several other other threads about this subject.
BTW :
IMHO it makes no sense to discuss these subjects with PerfectLogic. The negative TSLA bias is strong in him, he will not be convinced by any info or facts to change his opinion. I very much doubt he is here to learn something. Save yourself the time and effort to inform him. And as suggested above, if you want to do that anyway, this is probably not the best place to do it. The other threads are looking in these subjects already, lets not repeat them here.
Can I suggest this lenghty discussion about SCTY general econimics and solar residential and utility market to be moved to one of the several other other threads about this subject.
BTW :
IMHO it makes no sense to discuss these subjects with PerfectLogic. The negative TSLA bias is strong in him, he will not be convinced by any info or facts to change his opinion. I very much doubt he is here to learn something. Save yourself the time and effort to inform him. And as suggested above, if you want to do that anyway, this is probably not the best place to do it. The other threads are looking in these subjects already, lets not repeat them here.
Perfectlogic
Member
I view the utility as a company that has the job of providing electricity to its customers at the lowest price possible. The utility needs to be profitable to exist as it does today, owned by regular investors, so what happens is the the subsidy to residential solar will be paid by the rest of the customers of the utility. If you want to utility to subsidize and not send the bill to the rest of its customers they will go bankrupt when enough people have chosen residential solar, and then there will be noone to pick up the tab but the consumers themselves.
@Gerardf
Yes, the facts are certainly on your side, the fact that SCTY is down 75% from its peak is just that pesky market having a personal grudge against Elon.
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Solar installation is an underserved market.? Now this is getting ridiculous. there is no barrier to enter and the biggest cost is customer acquisition cost even for the biggest player? I would say it's a hyper competitive market.
I had an honest question about the Standsberry newsletter. It was handed to me from someone that seemed to think it was an accurate prediction of the Tesla/Solar City merger. It seemed rather negative both short and long term so I was wondering if there is historical validity both in the newsletter in general, but also previous articles about Tesla. Thanks.
At least in Utah, there is a fee for having a net meter, of about $100 a year to pay our share of line maintenance. Furthermore, in the winter, in addition to paying the net metering fee, I bought a lot of electricity (probably a years worth for someone living in an apartment), so I feel that I'm definitely paying my fair share. The biggest demand is in the afternoon in the summer, and my panels completely eliminate me as a load from the utility company, which saves them money because having to make more peak power is the most expensive. Finally, I benefit everyone in the valley by helping to improve our horrible air quality problem (even the most anti-clean energy people get to breathe cleaner air thanks to my solar panels and my Tesla).
You are doing your part. This discussion should also address the monopolistic behavior of private utilities. We have regulatory commissions for oversight, but these are often controlled by the utility or elected officials supported by the utility. The utility should be speeding the adoption of homeowner solar rather than fighting it. That is why a publically owned utility will more rapidly advance the adoption of renewable energy.
Perfectlogic
Member
Firstly if you believe in the solar story then it won't be long before we will have excess power production when the sun is shining the brightest, so that part of your argument will work against you some years down the line. But sure you might be paying your fair share, I don't know the rules in all the states. I have been focusing on the largest markets, like CA which I believe to be the largest, where I don't think you have the same yearly fee and I believe many of the SCTY installs are large enough so that you won't have to pay the utility a cent, or very few anyway.
I'm arguing for utility scale solar instead of residential as I don't like wasting money, so the air quality would be just as good in that case.
Hogfighter
Professional Lurker
So I go sailing in the Bahamas for a week, and you guys let the stock fall like this?? I'll be back in a week, please let things get back to normal.
Mario Kadastik
Active Member
Don't forget, Q2 is also when EU deliveries of X only just start. A number of people in EU have gotten VINs, but expect cars in Q3-Q4. So only VIN expectations are overly optimistic.
The petition is largely due to the fact that bremain campaign didn't quite refute the BS that the leave campaign spewed and a lot of people voted extremely badly informed. A good indicator is google trending of what is EU hours after the polls closed and it started to become apparent that UK would leave.
Well being off the max SP doesn't mean the business is bad, it may have been overhyped at some point and is back to a more rational plan and valuation.
The issue is, now they are out of the workforce, and the changes that this causes will make it much more difficult for the current young to work.
This really came down to a "we don't like immigrants" thing on the older generation, and really putting the younger generation in a tough work and financial bind in order to be mildly bigoted.
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