Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Depreciation (as you put it) is an expense. Revenue is a receipt, not an expense. I am trying to understand your point. Is it that COGS for demo vehicles are reduced by charging some of it to SG&A: therefore, the lower amount booked as revenue because of the discount does not reduce GM?

The numbers I posted show that revenue per car was lower in Q4 than in quarters on either side of Q4. I believe Tesla discounted cars in Q4 in order to deliver the lower end of the lowered guidance.for 2015. $5k to $10k per car averaged over ~17,000 cars is $85 million to $170 million less revenue for the quarter.

Tesla does not report with sufficient granularity to determine the details of accounting for demo's and service loaners. It's conceivable that the charge-off for loaners is booked to Services & Other COGS. Regardless, I agree with Fallenone, when the demos/loaners/inventory cars are discounted, Operating Profit (not necessarily GM) is reduced.

Brian45011, your point is well taken that average selling prices of Tesla vehicles dropped in Q4 of 15, but when you delve into the cause and effect relationship, the waters become murky. I agree with you that inventory was sold in an effort to make the 2015 guidance, but is that selling of inventory an excuse for discounting, or is it simply selling what was available to sell at the appropriate price for those vehicles? The term "discounting" implies that demand was the culprit in Q4 and discounts the real problem, which was the slow ramp-up of Model X that quarter. I see 4Q15 as a quarter with production issues that led to a selling of inventory in an effort to make guidance, but I don't see this as a demand issue. It was a production issue.

If you point to Model 60 being sold with 75kwh battteries in 3Q16 as discounting, I would partially agree with you, because the production line is ready to roll faster now and less-expensive offerings are needed to keep demand slightly ahead of production capability. I say "partially agree" because the 60s sold have been rather well optioned and because either with the current owners or prior to their CPO sale to a second owner, these cars will likely all be upgraded to 75kwh versions and part of the "discount" will be recouped.

Let me add that the current need to tweak demand includes the realization that Tesla is passing through a bit of a demand valley, caused by negative press associated with the autopilot fatality plus the Osborne effect of approaching 100kwh battery and Autopilot 2.0 hardware releases. Demand after these temporary situations are resolved could be noticeably stronger than at the moment.
 
Last edited:
Has anyone been on a factory tour in the last 7 weeks (Q3)? Really interested to know how production is ramping up this quarter. May be, the weekly rate was mentioned in any of the Sunday socials?

I didn't see any information on how to request Tesla factory tour. Is it open for non-owners also? During NUMMI days, anyone could request and attend a tour; there was no need to be a Toyota owner. I know, as I went for a tour. Wonder what's the situation now. I live quite close to Fremont, so I could go see how the ramp is going on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: everman
Has anyone been on a factory tour in the last 7 weeks (Q3)? Really interested to know how production is ramping up this quarter. May be, the weekly rate was mentioned in any of the Sunday socials?

I didn't see any information on how to request Tesla factory tour. Is it open for non-owners also? During NUMMI days, anyone could request and attend a tour; there was no need to be a Toyota owner. I know, as I went for a tour. Wonder what's the situation now. I live quite close to Fremont, so I could go see how the ramp is going on.

The email address is...

[email protected]

Unfortunately, you have to be an owner to go on the factory tour. I emailed them a month ago about organising a tour in the hope that being a shareholder and model 3 reservation holder would be enough, but sadly this wasn't the case.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: mmd
Thx. Yep. Not political at all. Thanks for letting us know about the proposed cap gains change. Fingers crossed that doesn't make it thru congress if Clinton wins.
Something like this would likely end up being compromised down to 2 or 3 years in committee, so it won't be that bad.

I think the idea was for tiering anyway (so 25% first year, 20% after 3 for instance) by I could be wrong or a genius with a great plan that they should use :).
 
  • Informative
Reactions: SW2Fiddler
Unfortunately, you have to be an owner to go on the factory tour.

I know a non-owner who got a tour directly from Tesla -- I think he was able to get a Tesla employee to arrange it for him. Plus of course it is possible for press, politicians, and anybody who can arrange to be among a +3. As well, last year TMC Connect attendees got tours. And my daughter got a tour (along with her three teammates) for winning this year's Tech Challenge.

So while Tesla doesn't hand them out like candy, there are many non-owners who get to go. I suspect that if you are creative and persistent then it's possible to be one of them. Oh, and to keep it on topic, I suspect that the more people go on tours the faster the stock price will go up (not really).
 
  • Informative
Reactions: mmd
There is another very positive and well researched article by Randy Carlson at S.A. today.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/400...mhs:85de3c0fe5cd49628a0addc58a3245c6&uprof=46

Some of you battery gurus should take a look at it and report for the more challenged chemistry types like me. Particularly interesting is his assertion that the only way you can change the voltage capacity of the cells is through a software twitch. Interesting because, if I remember correctly, there's only a small difference in the weight of the upgradable 60D or the usual 75D. Why lug around unused cells?
 
  • Like
Reactions: dennis and Drax7
As I commented on SA I think Randy is wrong again. He compares the weights of a 2014 and 2015 car claiming the difference isn't enough to account for extra cells, but that ignores the reality that Tesla probably finds other ways to reduce weight in the vehicles over time. I'm pretty sure the 75 car simply uses more cells, possibly of higher capacity as well, and the 60 is just software limited to charge at a lower voltage/lower SOC. Also I don't think the high cell voltages Randy uses are possible at this time for production cells.
 
  • Like
Reactions: techmaven
Interesting because, if I remember correctly, there's only a small difference in the weight of the upgradable 60D or the usual 75D. Why lug around unused cells?

There should be no weight difference between a upgradable 60D and a similarly equipped 75D. (Unless there is a significant weight difference between the 60 and 75 badges.)

And you aren't lugging around any unused cells. They are all being used, just only 80% of them. (If you didn't have the cells you couldn't upgrade and you would have worse performance.)
 
I was about to modify the original post when my computer quit.

It was stupid of me to assume some cells were unused in a block. I would guess it would be more complicated and perhaps damaging to the cells, to have some rotating scheme which used, say, 80 percent of the total--unless upgraded. Randy admits at key points throughout the article his lack of direct knowledge and that he is arguing only by inference. Suppose, for example, JPR3's assumption there is weight savings elsewhere is wrong, then Carlson's inference has more weight. (Sorry for the unintended pun.) Also, Occam's Razor again. It's just easier to change the voltage tolerance, I would assume.
 
Last edited:
It is even easier and more reliable to just count the Wh going in / out and adjust the voltages at some conservative levels.

It's even easier than that. If a fully charged 75kWh car is 4.2V per cell and the 60 car is 80% of the 75 you just stop charging at a per cell voltage that correlates with 80% SOC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.