RobStark
Well-Known Member
I know this is the short term thread but I will make a bold long term prediction.
In 7-10 years Tesla acquires Panasonic.
In 7-10 years Tesla acquires Panasonic.
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Maybe this deal is also a tacit approval from Panasonic regarding Gigafactory / M3 progress.
The statements clearly said the reason for panasonic partnership is to accelerate solar production in 2017.
Elon is predicting huge demand for their solar products and obviously panasonic also sees the potential. Who knows, Elon might do it again and pull another Model 3 equivalent Solar product (roof) with 400k reservations. This would explain the need for Panasonic's expertise in cell productions to help produce Silvero cells and possibly panasonic's own cells as well.
Regardless what it is, This new partnership shows that Panasonic is happy with their investment in the gigafactory and is confident in the direction Tesla is going, they are putting in more investments. This sounds like GREAT news to me.
We might be approaching the TE ramp Elon spoke about.
Elon is predicting huge demand for their solar products and obviously panasonic also sees the potential. Who knows, Elon might do it again and pull another Model 3 equivalent Solar product (roof) with 400k reservations. This would explain the need for Panasonic's expertise in cell productions to help produce Silvero cells and possibly panasonic's own cells as well.
Regardless what it is, This new partnership shows that Panasonic is happy with their investment in the gigafactory and is confident in the direction Tesla is going, they are putting in more investments. This sounds like GREAT news to me.
We might be approaching the TE ramp Elon spoke about.
Panasonic is about $25B in market cap. So when $TSLA grows 10X, they probably could. But then again Panasonic does a ton of unrelated stuff.
It's trickier than that. When it became clear Tesla needed to make its own batteries, they became the chief competitor to their main supplier, Panasonic. This allowed them to get cash, proprietary stuff, and ensure the supply chain, while making Panasonic a partner rather than a competitor. Same thing with Silevo.
Yeah I don't think Tesla has any real intention to make the solar panels without SCTY. That would be like Musk competing with himself.
Yup, and it keeps SCTY as a cash in hand partner rather than a chief competitor.
Pretty sure this stuff is gonna sell itself. I think I hear tsunami sirens going off.
Look at this deal as a de-risking for both parties in 2017. Panasonic has a lot of money in the gigafactory already and needs a healthy Tesla to invest heavily in Model 3 now so that it's ready to buy a ton of gigafactory cells, starting in late 2017. Right now, Wall Street is a hostile environment for Tesla, which has shown that it has great demand for its vehicles and likely for its energy products as well but it needs to get through 2017 first and raise some funds when Wall Street smiles again and the stock price is up. A financial de-risking will help Tesla do both. So, this deal moves financial and technical responsibility for spinning up the Buffalo factory to Panasonic, which can shoulder the burden while Tesla points out how little SCTY is going to cost over the next year and turns its attention back to getting the Model 3 spun up along with the TE 2.0 products.
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No, I understand the reasoning I guess I just don't agree. Credibility is not about delaying a (presumably) minor announcement by a couple days. It's about making and delivering on promises that matter. I'm more focused on the actual content of promises rather than the timing, especially when you consider everything tesla is doing is on the cutting edge and he has to figure everything out for the first time so the rest of the world can attempt to follow him. When I look at the things that matter, tesla always delivers and yes, it still counts if they are late.
Then I look to a company like Audi, who seems to release EVs on paper only every couple months then kills them. That's a real lack of credibility.
Bringing it back to SP, Wall Street isn't going to care about two days here. Shorts will latch onto it for ten minutes tomorrow but they latch onto literally everything, relevant or not. Obviously, there's no lasting impact here. If tesla starts habitually missing SEC filings or blowing off earnings calls or other things that actually matter from wall streets point of view then we can start talking about a lack of credibility. For now, I'm not clutching my pearls.
Ulmo
Active Member
The Tesla Team, October 16, 2016: Tesla and Panasonic to Collaborate on Photovoltaic Cell and Module Production in Buffalo, New York
Fixes Silevo IP issue? Second technology source as redundancy in case the Silevo IP issue isn't resolved satisfactorily? Silevo is still a go, and Panasonic has great expertise in execution? Edit: I like the angle others mentioned that this removes the possibility of some competitive discontent between Panasonic's PV business and Tesla's PV business; while I doubt this would have been a huge issue without this partnership, this helps make it even better.
Funding from Panasonic as a possibility or partial funding? Additional source of funding in addition to potential compressing monetization of future income streams at Solar City leases? More options for funding? Edit: Seems so!
Seems like good news all around. This is just the sort of business move that I'd expect from a mature marketplace: not quite fairytale Princess and the Frog, but the good old nitty gritty of good business partners. Even somewhere between those two, in a way.
I'm searching for info on Panasonic modules, using Google (so, no special skills from me):
My replies:
My experience of the Solar City Home Depot sales experience and the Tesla Store sales experience is that the Home Depot Solar City sales experience was not marketably superior to the Tesla Store experience. I'm speaking as someone who has spent my (prior job's) company's ~$70K at Home Depot over half a decade and interacted with Solar City sales a lot as they would catch me roaming the isles at HD hundreds of times over the years (asking me if I was a homeowner), and who has visited Tesla stores at least a dozen times (probably much closer to two dozen by now).
Fixes Silevo IP issue? Second technology source as redundancy in case the Silevo IP issue isn't resolved satisfactorily? Silevo is still a go, and Panasonic has great expertise in execution? Edit: I like the angle others mentioned that this removes the possibility of some competitive discontent between Panasonic's PV business and Tesla's PV business; while I doubt this would have been a huge issue without this partnership, this helps make it even better.
Funding from Panasonic as a possibility or partial funding? Additional source of funding in addition to potential compressing monetization of future income streams at Solar City leases? More options for funding? Edit: Seems so!
Seems like good news all around. This is just the sort of business move that I'd expect from a mature marketplace: not quite fairytale Princess and the Frog, but the good old nitty gritty of good business partners. Even somewhere between those two, in a way.
I'm searching for info on Panasonic modules, using Google (so, no special skills from me):
- Panasonic - Wholesale Solar (19% efficiency)
- PV-Magazine: Panasonic announces 22.5% module-level efficiency solar panel
- ComputerWorld: Panasonic surpasses SolarCity with world's most efficient solar panel: "It hopes to begin shipping the panels in mid-2016" (as an aside: check out that prototype building installation at the top of the article! sweet pic -- ideas of things to come, maybe?)
- From Panasonic's web site: Panasonic debuts high-powered photovoltaic module HIT® N330 for UK and European markets, sets new module efficiency record "Manufactured at Panasonic’s state-of-the-art, vertically integrated solar fabrication facilities in Malaysia, HIT® N330 features 19.7% module-level efficiency and a nominal power output of 330 watts." "In addition to the introduction of HIT® N330, Panasonic announced the achievement of a new world-record module conversion efficiency of 22.5% on a commercial-sized prototype prototype using solar cells based on mass-production technology. The test results were confirmed by the renowned Japanese National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST). The 72-cell, 270-watt prototype incorporates newly developed enhanced technology that will eventually be scaled into volume production." "This new record on module-level efficiency adds to the 25.6% efficiency record achieved last year at cell-level. “The new panel efficiency record demonstrates once again Panasonic’s proven leadership in photovoltaics and our ongoing commitment to move the needle in advanced solar technology,” Roca added."
My replies:
Negotiation in process: you want them to put the cart before the horse, in your house, before they've even slept in their own house or even taken it out of their barn? Damnnn!
That would be cool if Silevo tech can enhance Panasonic output. I'm not counting on that, though; it would be foolish for me personally to assume they will. But either way, there's product there.
My experience of the Solar City Home Depot sales experience and the Tesla Store sales experience is that the Home Depot Solar City sales experience was not marketably superior to the Tesla Store experience. I'm speaking as someone who has spent my (prior job's) company's ~$70K at Home Depot over half a decade and interacted with Solar City sales a lot as they would catch me roaming the isles at HD hundreds of times over the years (asking me if I was a homeowner), and who has visited Tesla stores at least a dozen times (probably much closer to two dozen by now).
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Two negatives on one Sunday. One minor (2 day delay), one major (SolarCity PV tech is dumped in favour of Panasonic's). In keeping with the trend the last months, that can only mean that SP goes up on Monday.
If it does go up, you should recalibrate what you consider is a negative and a positive. Individual bias will do you no favors when playing in the stock market.
Try harder then. I assume you're not 8, you should be able to do it.
Ulmo
Active Member
We all try stuff, get REALLY close, and find a better way, sometimes. I'll be happy to find out more about what happened to Silevo, but in the meanwhile, that doesn't matter any more. Tesla has said they're the juggernaut that will succeed, even if they have to climb a few rocks and jump or swim through a few streams.
What??? Did I miss a press release? SolarCity PV tech is dumped in favor of Panasonic's? Where di you read that?
What the have announced could mean that Pana has effectively got some floor space to manufacture their PV at that factory for e.g. the US market. Or it could mean that Pana will take over running manufacturing of the factory, period. As others said they bring the PV manufacturing expertise so this is basically a shortcut to achieve production efficiencies. This could also mean they found they can merge some of the technologies of the two companies. We don't know the details, but I guess the ER call will shed some light.
But how in the world did you manage to spin it in to SolarCity tech is garbage, they threw it out and replaced it with Panasonic???
SolarCity never had manufacturing experience. they were running a small scale pilot only and were buying PV from other companies before. They bring the Buffalo factory and the Silevo patents/technology.
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