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Well, yes. That would be the icing on the cake if it turns out that their ill-conceived NDA gets them in hot waters with the federal administration. Was Tesla legal sleeping at the wheel when they let this slip by?
Well i was shown this article this morning and dismissed it as FUD. Now in the afternoon I see it spread more...
The NDA was clearly a bad idea in hindsight. Growing pains. As long as they recognize that and stop doing it going forward, this is a non-issue.
CALGARYARSENAL
Member
I have been known to be a Tesla bear in the past due to Macro headwinds and poor X roll out, but this suspension headline is not worrying me at all. It's a bump in the road which will be filled right away. I usually shoot first and ask later but this seems ridiculous.
There's nothing wrong with NDAs generally. Certain federal agencies are very sensitive about NDAs that *could* be read to discourage disclosure to authorities, e.g., a blanket ban on talking about the issue to anyone. Best practice is to carve out limited instances for disclosure, such as in response to a subpoena, to a lawyer/tax advisor, spouse or governmental agencies (obviously this last one is the key). I haven't seen their NDAs but hopefully there is a specific carveout for disclosure to governmental agencies. That would make this go away in short order. If they don't, not that big of a deal, they will probably just be asked to include the language in future NDAs, possibly amend existing NDAs and at worst pay a small fine. Not a material event other than for people with some short-term positions (hi, me!).
As long as the NDA was to cover the financial terms of the repair and not to cover the reporting of the incident to safety organizations, it should be fine. Someone at Tesla legal should make sure that the NDA differentiates that appropriately.
MitchJi
Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness
Prove? That is ludicrous!
Your examples were whole cars. According to that logic your examples would apply to new wheels or cup holders!
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Krugerrand
Meow
Relax. Did you not learn from the last volatile down turn? Then the volatile up, then the down, then back up, now down...
Krugerrand
Meow
Hmm... So there's a no-news interview that bumps the share price quite a bit and now an actual news piece (insubstantial, but nevertheless) that bumps it down. What's "rediculous" about that? I tell you what, you spent money on shares of this company without having emotional intelligence and self control to not freak out about little things.
I think the NDA may be referring to the Goodwill agreement and a later real NDA in this case. I post the main part of the Goodwill below from the original thread.
A summary for this case: a 2013 Model S owner had a failed ball joint after about 70k miles of driving. Tesla billed him about $3k for repair initially since it was out of the 50k warranty. Owner thinks this failure is not normal wear and tear and he was not abusing the car so it should be a defect part/product therefore he shouldn't pay the cost of repair. Tesla then gave this Goodwill agreement, covering 50% of the repair cost. I think the owner continued to argue with Tesla until he signed a more serious NDA and said he was satisfied. But then also filed a case to NHTSA and disclosed some emails between him and NHTSA that were asked to be confidential by the NHTSA.
There are some other cases similar to this one but mostly confined to 2013 models. I do suspect Tesla was relatively inexperienced at that time/didn't have the money to buy parts with high enough quality/whatever and may had a higher percentage of cars sold potentially with similar issues of the ball joint. But even they do issue a recall, that's like 10% of their current fleet. And unless Tesla made those parts, it would be the reliability of the supplier just like the recent recall on 3rd row seat of Model X. The damage would be mostly temporarily on the reputation side, and immaterial on the financial side.
The Goodwill agreement. I bold the last part and wonder if the language is discouraging reporting to NHTSA. If so, this is bad communication.
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Tesla Motors, Inc., including its affiliates, (we, us, our, Tesla) highly values you as our customer (you, your). We are redefining the vehicle ownership experience and set extremely high standards for customer satisfaction. Pursuant to the terms in this agreement, we are extending a gesture of goodwill in providing you with parts, services or other compensation as described here (“Goodwill”):
The Goodwill is being provided to you without any admission of liability or wrongdoing or acceptance of any facts by Tesla, and shall not be treated as or considered evidence of Tesla’s liability with respect to any claim or incidents. You agree to keep confidential our provision of the Goodwill, the terms of this agreement and the incidents or claims leading or related to our provision of the Goodwill. In accepting the Goodwill, you hereby release and discharge Tesla and related persons or entities from any and all claims or damages arising out of or in any way connected with any claims or incidents leading or related to our provision of the Goodwill. You further agree that you will not commence, participate or voluntarily aid in any action at law or in equity or any legal proceeding against Tesla or related persons or entities based upon facts related to the claims or incidents leading to or related to this Goodwill.
A summary for this case: a 2013 Model S owner had a failed ball joint after about 70k miles of driving. Tesla billed him about $3k for repair initially since it was out of the 50k warranty. Owner thinks this failure is not normal wear and tear and he was not abusing the car so it should be a defect part/product therefore he shouldn't pay the cost of repair. Tesla then gave this Goodwill agreement, covering 50% of the repair cost. I think the owner continued to argue with Tesla until he signed a more serious NDA and said he was satisfied. But then also filed a case to NHTSA and disclosed some emails between him and NHTSA that were asked to be confidential by the NHTSA.
There are some other cases similar to this one but mostly confined to 2013 models. I do suspect Tesla was relatively inexperienced at that time/didn't have the money to buy parts with high enough quality/whatever and may had a higher percentage of cars sold potentially with similar issues of the ball joint. But even they do issue a recall, that's like 10% of their current fleet. And unless Tesla made those parts, it would be the reliability of the supplier just like the recent recall on 3rd row seat of Model X. The damage would be mostly temporarily on the reputation side, and immaterial on the financial side.
The Goodwill agreement. I bold the last part and wonder if the language is discouraging reporting to NHTSA. If so, this is bad communication.
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Tesla Motors, Inc., including its affiliates, (we, us, our, Tesla) highly values you as our customer (you, your). We are redefining the vehicle ownership experience and set extremely high standards for customer satisfaction. Pursuant to the terms in this agreement, we are extending a gesture of goodwill in providing you with parts, services or other compensation as described here (“Goodwill”):
The Goodwill is being provided to you without any admission of liability or wrongdoing or acceptance of any facts by Tesla, and shall not be treated as or considered evidence of Tesla’s liability with respect to any claim or incidents. You agree to keep confidential our provision of the Goodwill, the terms of this agreement and the incidents or claims leading or related to our provision of the Goodwill. In accepting the Goodwill, you hereby release and discharge Tesla and related persons or entities from any and all claims or damages arising out of or in any way connected with any claims or incidents leading or related to our provision of the Goodwill. You further agree that you will not commence, participate or voluntarily aid in any action at law or in equity or any legal proceeding against Tesla or related persons or entities based upon facts related to the claims or incidents leading to or related to this Goodwill.
jhm
Well-Known Member
I still exist, just taking a break from ST thread. Nice to see FUD is still spinning and all is right in the world.
I so Mini Cooper in ATL today whose driver is pretty excited about the about the Model 3. His Cooper had a sticker with "My next car is a [3 symbol]," and the custom plate was "MODEL 3". So it's taken in GA already. I tried to give the driver a thumbs up. I appreciate the enthusiasm.
Carry on.
I so Mini Cooper in ATL today whose driver is pretty excited about the about the Model 3. His Cooper had a sticker with "My next car is a [3 symbol]," and the custom plate was "MODEL 3". So it's taken in GA already. I tried to give the driver a thumbs up. I appreciate the enthusiasm.
Carry on.
A screenshot of the full NDA is posted on flickr. It's surprisingly short and does not contain any of the special carve outs you mention. Seems like it's been a standing text within Tesla since February '14. I agree this will go away soon but the damage to reputation is what may have longer lasting consequences, not such much a potential fine.
It specifically mentions the incident itself as being covered, not just the financial terms.
That's incredibly basic... Doesn't seem bad to me, it's meant so that the recipient of the repairs won't disclose costs/tesla covering said costs. Moreover, it also states that the customer will not take legal action against tesla concerning the repairs (i.e. the incident that caused tesla to cover the repairs under goodwill to begin with). People are missing the entire point of the NDA, provided that's truly the copy they signed.
Hopefully, saner heads would prevail by tomorrow morning and realize that it is much ado about nothing.
Short trolls can party until then.
Short trolls can party until then.
colettimj
Member
In the Suspension Problem thread, the guy said he couldn't talk about his settlement due to the NDA. He did continue to warn others to have their suspension checked and notified the NHTSA. The NDA obviously doesn't prevent him from talking about the issue but only prevents him from revealing what settlement he received from Tesla. Seems a lot less nefarious that others are claiming.
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