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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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Car suppliers are mature, heavy industry (or whatever the term is) and they are not using equity options compensation to their own employees in general. Never said Tesla was in that category, I thought that was clear from my text. It is just not how business is done and most businesses have a fixed way of doing things hence the unlikeliness no matter what other logic you present.

The way to get car suppliers to play ball is by legal contracts, ordering large quantities with somewhat long lead times and follow up with communication. With X they did not buy large quantities. If you think the X ramp problems was because they did not offer equity compensation tied to Tesla stock to suppliers then I am not going to try to convince you otherwise.

I can see other reasons how Tesla want to get the SP down, or at-least don't mind if it went down. For example if they wanted to accelerate hiring and wanted to offer a lower base for equity compensation. A much more likely scenario I think is that they needed to commit to the 2018 goal right now and therefore for one reason or the other that we don't know choose to set it publicly and how the SP would react was secondary. I think this also points to lower part being equity raise as the SP does not matter as much if the raise is low. I think they will surprise most how far they are with manufacturing plans and also how they will get the funding and how much fudning is needed.

Let's leave this discussion as it is not important for the investment case.

It is important for the investing case.

Your insistence upon reasoning by analogy as a counterargument is indeed unhelpful, not just to your understanding but to others reading it. By the exactly same illogic you have presented here, the way cars are always made is by large companies installing engines. Not the side of a debate you want to be on when it comes to Tesla.

The critical path issue for Tesla now and the root of all execution risks are:

1. Lax and unmotivated suppliers.
2. Suppliers motivated to screw up Tesla's job for the benefit of one or more larger and more lucrative customer.

The whole ER screams to this exact point and your argument is - well business as usual dictates......

They cannot afford to risk business as usual (see Model X supplier debacle). They HAVE to rethink it.

Hence the threats to stand ready to pull anything in-house. How do you hire the trained staff to go with the emergency in-source? Not so tough when the entire crew is sitting on $30K of TSLA options per head that their employer is threatening to devalue to Nil by pulling them off Tesla's project for a few weeks here and there into a pointless side project on a back-hander from GM.

Can Tesla pay cash to achieve the same effect? No! Not by busting its non-GAAP Gross Margins and blowing up its $35K per car base price with margins in tact.

And Options incentives are effectively a one-time deal until Tesla is the dominant customer that no supplier messes with on behalf of GM or anyone else - and the underlying shares can be issued as a fundraiser potentially taking them off the GAAP non-Cash too and sticking them in Investing Activity - and they can do this tax effectively by issuing shares to themselves for such a scheme on paper (just increasing the float) not even to the markets so long as the market share price is nice and low. And issuing incentives like this when the SP is suppressed is how you make sure that these options gain value from the get go and have the intended motivational effect. It's enough to be worth tanking the stock for it.

This is not tangential. More likely it is absolutely central to comprehending TSLA right now.

If this is correct we should see an equities filing with the SEC in a matter of days - but a bond raiser likely at an entirely different date after some materially better newsflow.
 
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Not out of the question. Google is already in SpaceX and Solar City. Almost strange that they are not in Tesla too. Maybe Google's autonomy project is seen as conflict of interest like an iPhone Android thing.

Elon and Larry/Sergi are friends. Seems like a solid fit. Like-minded.

Google minority investment. They appear to have no intention of producing their own car. Just focused on autonomy. They could keep doing that. Not a big conflict IMHO.
 
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It is important for the investing case.

Your insistence upon reasoning by analogy as a counterargument is indeed unhelpful, not just to your understanding but to others reading it. By the exactly same illogic you have presented here, the way cars are always made is by large companies installing engines. Not the side of a debate you want to be on when it comes to Tesla.

The critical path issue for Tesla now and the root of all execution risks are:

1. Lax and unmotivated suppliers.
2. Suppliers motivated to screw up Tesla's job for the benefit of one or more larger and more lucrative customer.

The whole ER screams to this exact point and your argument is - well business as usual dictates......

They cannot afford to risk business as usual (see Model X supplier debacle). They HAVE to rethink it.

Hence the threats to stand ready to pull anything in-house. How do you hire the trained staff to go with the emergency in-source? Not so tough when the entire crew is sitting on $30K of TSLA options per head that their employer is threatening to devalue to Nil by pulling them off Tesla's project for a few weeks here and there into a pointless side project on a back-hander from GM.

Can Tesla pay cash to achieve the same effect? No! Not by busting its non-GAAP Gross Margins and blowing up its $35K per car base price with margins in tact.

And Options incentives are effectively a one-time deal until Tesla is the dominant customer that no supplier messes with on behalf of GM or anyone else - and the underlying shares can be issued as a fundraiser potentially taking them off the GAAP non-Cash too and sticking them in Investing Activity - and they can do this tax effectively by issuing shares to themselves for such a scheme on paper (just increasing the float) not even to the markets so long as the market share price is nice and low. And issuing incentives like this when the SP is suppressed is how you make sure that these options gain value from the get go and have the intended motivational effect. It's enough to be worth tanking the stock for it.

This is not tangential. More likely it is absolutely central to comprehending TSLA right now.

If this is correct we should see an equities filing with the SEC in a matter of days - but a bond raiser likely at an entirely different date after some materially better newsflow.

I agree how they manage suppliers and which ones they work with is super critical for the coming years and they need to do this much better than with S and X just as was said on the ER call.

Tesla is not disrupting the auto supplier business. Maybe there are room for some new company that can do that too but they are not that company so I don't see any indication of them being able to change how business is done with current volumes.

The midsize makers like Volvo for example does not seem to have much problems with their suppliers. Maybe Tesla is a harder case as they move twice as fast, which was also mentioned on the call. Suppliers whole reason for existing is that they can do volume production on time but they can't change the product with a short lead time.

Model 3 will be produced in millions too so they will be a first class customer. I don't buy that Model X outcome was mainly suppliers fault and that a new way of doing business between suppliers and manufacturers is needed to prevent that for Model 3. Tesla might need to work with suppliers that are capable on operating a bit different and they have now weeded out some that can't do this. One interesting question is how big quantities you have to order to prevent the Model X problem and becoming a top priority customer with shorter lead time.
 
Listened to the CC again.
No element can be added to M3 unless production agrees that it's easy to manufacture and that the risks are low.

We're adding world class aces in production every week.
I bet that in the fairly near future those experts will have an impact on the MS-MX production as well.

This is not tangential. More likely it is absolutely central to comprehending TSLA right now.
More likely it's a complete fantasy.
 
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Model 3 development steps!

I found the Q&A with Barclays analyst to be very interesting. Re-Read the transcript again.

The motor used in the alpha prototype Model3 is the PRODUCTION motor. Maybe it's common with the smaller sized MS/MX motor (like the FWD motor).
So, basically the Model 3 drivetrain is DONE.

M3 dev timeline.

1) Model 3 "Design" nearly done. 8 more weeks. finalized by end of June and released to "tooling"

2). "Tooling build" will take 9 months. To April'17

3). Start building "validation" parts Apr'17. From production tooling. 4 months

4). This brings them to July'17. The target start date for model 3 production on assembly line.

Assembly-line not discussed. Assume it's built out in parallel to above activities.

BIW robotic line not discussed. Assuming built out in parallel as well.
 
In 2012, Tesla delivered around 3,000 Model S.
In 2016, they will deliver around 90,000 S and X. That is a 30 (THIRTY) fold increase in 4 years, with two cars that are difficult to produce. Wall Street thinks they can't increase 4-5 fold in two years with a car that is being designed from the ground up for ease of manufacturing?!? MORONS!!!

Time to back up the truck, Daddy has to buy a lot more stock!!!! :D
 
I guess most people were disappointed with the earning, some even upset with their seemingly impossibe plan. I am one of the few who are really excited to see the production plan being accelerated. Here are Some reasons that make me as bullish as ever.
1. Tax incentive is hugely important for new buyers. By mass producing in 2018, everyone Will be able to get $7.5k - $10k tax discount which is about 20%. This puts the M3 into the range of $25k-ish, making it affordable to a much, much larger mass. This is the real reason for the new guidance in my opinion. By reveal #2, reservations will be much, much higher now that people are able to get incentive.
2. Competition will be left in the dust. By accelerating the timeline by 2 years, Tesla just killed all competition, if any, including GM. All of a sudden, GM no longer can brag that their Bolt is the only high range, volume production EV in 2017. Even at 50k M3 in 2017, it would still put GM Bolt to shame. We no longer fear Apple car in 2019, Porsch, BMW or whoever.
3. Capital raise is for accelerating Existing massive amount of orders. No doubt there will be dillution, but much more revenue gain and profit for that dillution, which will be worth it in the end. It's not like they have to raise or go bankrupt.
4. His targets are not totally impossible. Elon is a genius problem solver and he just threw down his gaunlet to tackle the production issue. he has a track record of delivering most of what people think "impossible." I believe he can do at least 80% of what he said, which is far more than good enough.

I will be buying all the way down. $200 is the line in the sand.
 
I'm starting to wonder if the impending Apple car (look, they are clearly working on something) is also part of the reason for the bump in production plans.

Hypothetically Tesla has 500,000 backorders at the start of 2018, and as originally planned was only going to be able to make 100,000-200,000 a year at that point. Then Apple says "oh hey, check this out!" and shows something even remotely interesting, a lot of those 500,000 will jump ship since they are already going to have to wait on a car. They aren't brand loyal, Elon said most reservations are new to Tesla. If Apple (who has deep pockets) shows something neat, people will go there.

Upping production is the only way to get ahead of this potential loss of customers.
 
In 2012, Tesla delivered around 3,000 Model S.
In 2016, they will deliver around 90,000 S and X. That is a 30 (THIRTY) fold increase in 4 years, with two cars that are difficult to produce. Wall Street thinks they can't increase 4-5 fold in two years with a car that is being designed from the ground up for ease of manufacturing?!? MORONS!!!

Time to back up the truck, Daddy has to buy a lot more stock!!!! :D

I like your enthusiasm and admit that I think (and hope) that they can do what EM says in the timeframe he has given.

The reason that some, myself included, are cautious about this: First, let us see the 90K deliveries before we say they 'will deliver' and
they have not hit guidance consistently in over 2 years.........
 
Simon Sinek: How great leaders inspire action | TED Talk | TED.com

People don't buy what you do. They buy why you do it.

In describing "The Law of Diffusion of Innovation" Simon Sinek describes a tipping point that is reached after purchases by the "early adopters" and "innovators" (the people he describes as the ones who just get it) where sales explode and the early majority begins to buy.

Where will the model 3 fall on the classic diffusion of innovation chart?
 
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Hey Doc, other than pointing out every time Tesla missed their projections (something which everyone on this forum knows they've done, and most likely will continue to do, and to your and others' dismay they'll keep getting away with doing), do you have an actual prediction? Preferably a testable one. Like, say, a timeframe for when they will go bankrupt.

I keep reading your comments hoping to glean some information from you regarding the future of Tesla, but it's all about the past. Just make your prediction on record, please, so I can finally put you on Ignore until your predicted day of reckoning arrives.

Heck, I would listen to Doc carefully even if he keeps talking about the past, but brings forward some relevant information which actually makes coherent bear case. If I would be a bear, the first thing I would do is try to analyze efficiency of what bears call "cash burn" and what is actually a deployment of capital as far as I am concerned. Compare, for example, money Tesla spent so far and what this spend paid for:

  • the best and most successful sedan in it's class
  • the most technologically advanced SUV in the world
  • the first, fastest and most functional charging network, the only one that allows for long distance travel in the world
  • the Tesla Energy business
  • The autopilot program complete with fleet-wide learning and map buidling capability supported by the fleet of connected cars
  • Phase I of GF1
Then I would collect information on costs associated with building comparable products and programs (with proper adjustment factors as required) so I can actually compare it to the money Tesla spend on developing these products and programs, so I can see how Tesla spend compares to the money spend by other companies. Here is the suggested list of the products and programs by other companies:
  • cost of production capabilities, R&D spent by Mercedes for a completely revamped Class S
  • cost of production capabilities, R&D spent by Porsche to develop and introduce Cayenne
  • This one is a touch one - the biggest network is by Charge Point, but it is not nearly as functional as Supercharger network - a lot of adjustments factors will need to be used here
  • AES Battery Energy storage business
  • Google autopilot program
  • A Panasonic battery manufacturing facility
I think I know why not a single bear came forward with such an analysis. My bet is that it will show that Tesla "cash burn" is the most effective deployment of capital ever.
 
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