Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
WSJ article on SolarCity yesterday provided a lot of points an investor should be aware of. Like the immediate need of cash scty has. Like the 15 firms walked away. Don't you need to know this?

The comment about the 15 firms is BS that has been cited by too many articles. Did the WSJ speak to these "15 firms"? Why would these "15 firms" tell the WSJ something like that? Reads like a rumor being spread around by someone with an agenda.

The comment about SolarCity's cash needs is not a fact and is based on nothing!
 
I'm kinda rehashing old thoughts here. Not much new.

Come to think of it, the merger eliminates the short term refinancing risk of these loans. You would expect that SolarCity would have had 20 yr loans to match 20 year PPA revenue stream. Instead, they opted for short term 5 yr loans to reduce interest payments. Because the business outlook started floundering, when it is time to refinance, lenders would have jacked up interest rates citing increased risk. That risk is mostly eliminated under Tesla as Tesla is a much bigger entity with much less risk profile.

This was mentioned in the SCTY conference call Elon was on during his public promotion of the merger deal, I'm pretty sure. Either that, or I figured it out for myself and assumed it during the call and it got associated in my memory with thoughts during the call. But that's not very material either way. I'm just trying to say (a) I agree mostly and (b) you state it as an absolute, and I wouldn't --- "eliminates short term refinancing risk of these loans" --- absorbs, sponges, etc..., but it will still be there, just buffered much better. Why am I saying all of this without a background in financing? Probably everyone else on this forum could explain this better to me than I could to them.

This is something I've been hesitant to say, but I'll say it: From what I understand, SCTY seems to have a borrowing problem because of lack of faith in its future, and TSLA doesn't have as huge a borrowing problem, because of abundant faith in its future. SCTY needs money now, and TSLA needs money in a more regular timeline (not all right now). In essence, this TSLA buying SCTY's effect on borrowing benefit is TSLA lending faith in TSLA to SCTY. This only works as beneficial if SCTY pays that faith back somehow, such as integrated product increasing marketshare and/or profit margin per marketshare and/or increasing profit somehow. TSLA really wants that, and is looking to integrate its TE (home battery) products into the marketplace efficiently and profitably, so this is the stated benefit for having the assets of SCTY in TSLA's pocket.

TSLA needs money, but it has tapped into a well of money that a % of flow directed toward its cousin would allow its cousin to survive that it would not survive the same way without, and there is a (claimed and plausible integration) benefit to eating its cousin.

My original complaint was that there might be a cheaper way to do this energy integration. My capitulation came in that (a) those ways might have been exhausted and (b) those ways might never have existed. I'm leaning toward (a) years ago, but with today's Silevo Buffalo factory, if Tesla+Solar City has inside knowledge of their product effectiveness and saleability that will help the payback that they are being coy about, then this becomes contingent upon that coming through. That's not only plausible, but how they're selling it.

Someone else's point is that may be a front for avoiding a catastrophe that could be too negative. If that's the case, then they better pair the two companies well, and QUICKLY clean house of the rough financing, pushy sales, and poor customer service at Solar City. During my Solar installation proposal reviews, I didn't even look at Solar City as an installer due to very poor customer review ratings. At the last moment, I said what the heck, let's see if they've started learning their lesson and started playing good. The rep that came was completely held down by poor policies at his company. Maybe I'm just not dealing with national companies (all of my real proposals came from local outfits) and that's par for the course for the large national companies, but the revamping has not begun at all, as I see it --- those SC policies were ridiculous and basically had me running the rep out the door as fast as I possibly could without being overly impolite. I don't know what they're waiting for, quite frankly. If the merger fails, Solar City is going to bed.

Either way, they should clean up SC urgently. Now, before the merger, during the merger, after ---- maybe they're just waiting until after the merger so that people aren't caught in a churn of multiple reformats within months.
 
Last edited:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/03/business/dealbook/lawyers-burnish-teslas-deal-for-solar-city.html
It all seems like a pretty Japanese gift. The packaging is nice, but what is inside? The inside, of course, seems to be a deal where there is no other buyer and where Mr. Musk stands heavily on both sides of the deal, appearing to bail out a flailing solar company in which he happens to own a 21.9 percent stake. Or perhaps this is a deal where, once again, some just do not understand Mr. Musk’s genius.
 
WSJ article on SolarCity yesterday provided a lot of points an investor should be aware of. Like the immediate need of cash scty has. Like the 15 firms walked away. Don't you need to know this?
First, I guess we need to know, IF IT IS TRUE.
Second, I have become wary of WSJ lately. Trust is precious, not a commodity like clicks.
Third, market is closed now, for 3 days. Enjoy the Labor-free day.
 
The USLaunchReport video feed has some very fast moving artifact move from top right to top left of the image, passing by the rocket just as it starts to deflagrate. Hard to say if its just a glitch on the camera, or if something really was moving that fast, that close to the rocket (or maybe its a fly or something buzzing past the front of the mega-zoom lens it was shot with).

That's pretty tin-foil hat territory, though.

Hard to tell, but others have also said that S2 appears to bulge a fraction of a second before deflagrating.
You know, I reviewed the video again and there really seems to be that streak between the 1:10 to 1:11 mark and when you keep replaying it, it does look like there was a projectile impact before the explosion. As tin-foil hatty as that sounds, it's too coincidental to not consider it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lessmog
This is my question to the finance-type folks:
I understand Elon's macro-vision, and the benefits of SCTY in that vision.
SCTY is clearly in a death spiral, and the future doesn't look good unless TSLA merger goes through.
From TSLA and Elon's perspective, why not sit it out for next 6 months, watch SCTY crash, burn, and go bankrupt... then pick up SCTY for pennies on the dollar? Wouldn't that make more financial sense in short term and long term
 
WSJ article on SolarCity yesterday provided a lot of points an investor should be aware of. Like the immediate need of cash scty has. Like the 15 firms walked away. Don't you need to know this?
This was what SCTY was extremely cagey about when the merger intent was announced, and before. However, a lot of it was figured out by us stabbing into the veil of privacy before that WSJ article came out. We posted about it, talked about it, linked it, listened to it on conference calls, etc., days, weeks, months ago (more like weeks). How many investors just read the WSJ article vs. those who already knew about most of this before hand? What's the ratio of institutional holders vs. retail holders, and how much sway do both have on the stock price?
 
Good read. I can't help to think that maybe some big institutions felt deceived after the S4. We all know in Q2 a lot of the big institutions loaded up big time. But that's mostly because the secondary offer. In the secondary offer there was no mentioning about plans buying SCTY, but in this week's S4 it was detailed that Elon approached Lydon in February about this. I wonder if some big shareholders were disappointed by this and sold away their shares.
 
This is my question to the finance-type folks:
I understand Elon's macro-vision, and the benefits of SCTY in that vision.
SCTY is clearly in a death spiral, and the future doesn't look good unless TSLA merger goes through.
From TSLA and Elon's perspective, why not sit it out for next 6 months, watch SCTY crash, burn, and go bankrupt... then pick up SCTY for pennies on the dollar? Wouldn't that make more financial sense in short term and long term
Quick question: when it crashes, and burns, who is it burning? TSLA's banks, lenders, etc.?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Turing
This is my question to the finance-type folks:
I understand Elon's macro-vision, and the benefits of SCTY in that vision.
SCTY is clearly in a death spiral, and the future doesn't look good unless TSLA merger goes through.
From TSLA and Elon's perspective, why not sit it out for next 6 months, watch SCTY crash, burn, and go bankrupt... then pick up SCTY for pennies on the dollar? Wouldn't that make more financial sense in short term and long term
I do think SCTY is needed for TSLA's TE products. If they waited 6 months, and they really starts to produce cells from the GF, the GF might stand idle for two quarters giving the company nothing but depreciation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: srini
Oh my god, this whole merger ordeal is like taking off a band-aid really really slowly.....the slower, the more it hurts. I wish this could have been merged right away (ripping off quickly) after the papers were filed. Then none of this up and down and what does this mean and what does that mean. Elon could put SolarCity straight to work for Tesla and they could be off creating f**cking awesome solar products. But now the market has control, whining and making stories up to mommy.
 
I'm pretty unhappy with the money I've lost in the last week. I think I'm going to go for a drive to cheer myself up. Sometimes we all need to be reminded what we are investing in. Nothing has changed in the last week. If you were happy holding shares at $220, you should be just as happy now. Its simply a paper loss, its happened before, it will likely happen again.
Be sure to drive safely. Prepare to take the control back anytime if you use AutoPilot. I don't want to see any of our TMC fellows become the ammunition for the short and FUD spreader.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tenable
Oh my god, this whole merger ordeal is like taking off a band-aid really really slowly.....the slower, the more it hurts. I wish this could have been merged right away (ripping off quickly) after the papers were filed. Then none of this up and down and what does this mean and what does that mean. Elon could put SolarCity straight to work for Tesla and they could be off creating f**cking awesome solar products. But now the market has control, whining and making stories up to mommy.
yes, but they said a long time ago to expect this process :(
 
Are you saying that the SpaceX on-pad explosion was sabotage? The plot-line for the movie thickens. The guys at Snapchat wanting to knock Face Book back a few months in their space activities.

I am not suggesting the SpaceX event was sabotage. But, the timing did make me stop and think about the precarious position of Tesla in a world dominated by oil interests. Do you think it that far fetched that such countries and companies would not resort to rather desperate and illicit measures to maintain their vast wealth and strategic monopolies? They are not quite at the drowning person panic stage, but advances in renewables indicate that time is not that far away.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: Drivin
SCTY is clearly in a death spiral, and the future doesn't look good unless TSLA merger goes through.
From TSLA and Elon's perspective, why not sit it out for next 6 months, watch SCTY crash, burn, and go bankrupt... then pick up SCTY for pennies on the dollar? Wouldn't that make more financial sense in short term and long term

Because your premise is wrong.

Solar City's short term liquidity problems were prompted by the uncertainty created by the Tesla acquisition (and the shop around provision) and tidying up the financials to look pretty for the acquisition talks.
 
lol @drinkerofkoolaid

@Ulmo, couldn't agree more re: SCTY's urgent need to clean up its act and adapt. there seem to be oppressive strictures coming from on high about what types of projects they will and won't do - no flat roofs in NE (because they can't afford to tilt them??); no more panels than house's current electrical needs (are you kidding me?). we had to go with Trinity (also could have used Sunbug) to get the system we wanted.
 
snip

From TSLA and Elon's perspective, why not sit it out for next 6 months, watch SCTY crash, burn, and go bankrupt... then pick up SCTY for pennies on the dollar? Wouldn't that make more financial sense in short term and long term

I wouldn't do that to family and if Elon has half my ego I wouldn't want to have a bankruptcy with my name on it. Of course there are some businessmen who have used this to their great advantage. I can't name one off hand, though, but for different reasons than fading memory.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.