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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2016

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When the ride sharing hyper bulls talk Tesla Network price they quote Tony Seba at 10 cents per mile. When Model 3 TN hyper bulls hypothesize about revenue for Model 3 Owners they usually come up with a figure of $1-$2 and Model 3 paying for itself in short order.

50 cents sounds reasonable.

25 cents per mile to Model 3 owner

Electricity 3.5 cents per mile
Depreciation 7 cents per mile (lets be optimistic on how long these powertrains last without major investment)

Profit 14.5 cents per mile. Ride share for 200k miles that is $29k in profit.
I think that Tesla could pay the owner 40 cents per mile (using your figures), and still make a huge amount of money. Which means a profit of almost double the amount to the owner (29.5 cents per mile) that you came up with.
 
Phew! After 5 days of intermittent satellite reception on a ship in Patagonia I have finally got caught up with this thread.

Taking a step back, I believe that when the biz school case studies are written about Tesla, 2016 will be seen as a watershed year - a year where Tesla built an unassailable competitive moat of ever widening circles consisting of:

- $35K Model 3 introduction
- 373K first month reservations
- accelerating 500K production to 2018
- SolarCity acquisition
- integrated Solar Roof, inverter and Powerwall
- Production cells from the GigaFactory
- Utility scale orders for Tesla Energy
- Level 5 Autonomy hardware in all cars
- Tesla Network autonomous car service plan

No other tech company except possibly Amazon has put in place this many competitive barriers IMO, and they took longer to do it.
 
Phew! After 5 days of intermittent satellite reception on a ship in Patagonia I have finally got caught up with this thread.

Taking a step back, I believe that when the biz school case studies are written about Tesla, 2016 will be seen as a watershed year - a year where Tesla built an unassailable competitive moat of ever widening circles consisting of:

- $35K Model 3 introduction
- 373K first month reservations
- accelerating 500K production to 2018
- SolarCity acquisition
- integrated Solar Roof, inverter and Powerwall
- Production cells from the GigaFactory
- Utility scale orders for Tesla Energy
- Level 5 Autonomy hardware in all cars
- Tesla Network autonomous car service plan

No other tech company except possibly Amazon has put in place this many competitive barriers IMO, and they took longer to do it.
GAAP positive too? Let's hope.:)
 
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I'm in the same boat Jay. My portfolio has been demolished by TSLA this year. If this ER goes badly, I'm in for a world of hurt.
To buy protective options or not to buy them ... that is the question (for me).

Now that I've actually seen "Buy the Rumor, Sell the News" in action, I have a better idea of what the phrase means with respect to "Rumor", since here on TMC, we see the "rumor" WAY WAY WAY sooner than Wall Street and other investors see the "rumor", usually, but not always (because they get the jump on us on NYC visible items). The "Sell the News" part is pretty easy to understand, since that is a discrete single timepoint. What they're saying is that everyone ELSE buys the rumors as East Coast/average public sees it, and that everyone ELSE sells the news when it is released. So, the smart play is to figure out when Big Money, New York, and Average Investor learns of the rumor, and be in a position to handle a rise (when they are buying), and then sometime during that process when it is high, handle it having risen, and then be ready to handle for others to sell when the news hits, not being in a position to be hurt by this, and then again when that has occurred and things are low again, to be in a position to handle a rise (of any type -- recovery, new valuation, whether lower or greater, etc.).

The hard part for me to understand that phrase was to understand who it was commanding, and what time it was commanding it. Now that I understand the timing of it, I can decipher who is doing what, and how I'm supposed to react in that phrase. I.e., the phrase describes the herd, not the proper action, and the timing is of the herd, not of the people trying to figure everything out. Of course, we ourselves are part of some herd, too, so we always have to second-guess even our own best understandings. But, essentially, it's saying, "They buy the rumor as and when they hear it and manifest it, and sell the news (exactly when the news is released essentially supposedly and in most practice), so you need to be in a position to either be ready for, not affected by, or take advantage of that."

Say I'm a huge Fidelity selling lots and lots of Calls and Puts, hoping that everyone hopes that whatever TSLA does, it goes way up AND/OR way down, so lots of people will buy lots of Calls and Puts, and then Fidelity uses their big position to hold the price in a narrow band, and doesn't have to pay out on those Calls or Puts, like what happened yesterday supposedly according to some interpretations that I read here and filled in my own example here. So, if I were to think oh good, this ER is going to make TSLA do something and I bought lots of calls and puts, then the big option callers could rake in a bunch from me. On the other hand, if I somehow hedged those ... I'm not quite that advanced yet, but maybe matching each one of mine with selling my own options? I'll have to take some days off from my day job for once and sit down and figure this out.
 
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Preface: I'm extremely optimistic about earnings next week and positioned accordingly. My biggest concern however is how Elon & Wheeler will navigate questions on Model 3 progress and the cap raise. Does anyone really believe they can not raise this qtr and still be on time? I know I posted about this earlier, but I think this is quite an important topic.
To be considered as having good earnings does it have to be GAAP positive ? It seems TM has never been able to achieve this and with all the discounts it makes it difficult . WS is also expecting that not to happen.
 
To be considered as having good earnings does it have to be GAAP positive ? It seems TM has never been able to achieve this and with all the discounts it makes it difficult . WS is also expecting that not to happen.

The ER is more about being GAAP positive.
It is usually more important what the guidance is for Q4 and Q1. Is Q3 a one-off, or is it a turning point?
 
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"Also, assuming Tesla gets pretty close to autonomous driving by 2018 who would possibly buy a base model without the self driving options that have the potential to pay for themselves using the Tesla network. If autonomous is available the effective base model now costs $43k."

I definitely would. Have no interest in AP and no interest in using my car for ride share. I expect that I'll order the base model+battery upgrade and that's about it. Maybe a pano roof but not likely.

The only way I'd add AP is if it was the only way I could ensure I'd get the tax credit. Then. its like a 'free' accessory. Wouldn't use it, but it would add value for a resell in a few years.
 
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To be considered as having good earnings does it have to be GAAP positive ? It seems TM has never been able to achieve this and with all the discounts it makes it difficult . WS is also expecting that not to happen.

No. GAAP Positive is NOT required. WS evaluates based on non-GAAP

That being said, GAAP positive would be awesome.
 
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I think that Tesla could pay the owner 40 cents per mile (using your figures), and still make a huge amount of money. Which means a profit of almost double the amount to the owner (29.5 cents per mile) that you came up with.

Tesla could. And they could also take a bigger chunk and leave the owner with less than my projections.

It all remains to be seen.
 
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I don't recall saying no one wants the 35k base... I for one might very well go for it (smallest battery, single motor) and add a few options (AP and glass roof and supercharger if they sell it as a one time thing).

Sorry, maybe I mixed you up with someone else. Anyway, let me say it then. If demand for the model 3 is strong enough, a likewise scenario as with the model S is a certainly not out of the question. Tesla pushes back and back and back on the delivery of the base model until nearly everyone is more than happy to order an optioned model and then the base gets dropped or increased to the point it no longer exists as a 35k car. It happened with the 40 and it happened with the X (SAS now no longer an option, 5 seaters still not delivered). So why could it not happen with the model 3? As a stockholder, that's a good thing btw.
 
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"Also, assuming Tesla gets pretty close to autonomous driving by 2018 who would possibly buy a base model without the self driving options that have the potential to pay for themselves using the Tesla network. If autonomous is available the effective base model now costs $43k."

I definitely would. Have no interest in AP and no interest in using my car for ride share. I expect that I'll order the base model+battery upgrade and that's about it. Maybe a pano roof but not likely.

The only way I'd add AP is if it was the only way I could ensure I'd get the tax credit. Then. its like a 'free' accessory. Wouldn't use it, but it would add value for a resell in a few years.

The nice thing about AP2 with Teslas is that since the hardware is there, the vehicles are not obsolete if you don't purchase the software option to activate the hardware. Upon resale, someone else can decide to activate the software very easily. The option remains only worth what it costs rather than decreasing the value of the entire car if it doesn't have the technology. It's just a software option.
 
Phew! After 5 days of intermittent satellite reception on a ship in Patagonia I have finally got caught up with this thread.

Taking a step back, I believe that when the biz school case studies are written about Tesla, 2016 will be seen as a watershed year - a year where Tesla built an unassailable competitive moat of ever widening circles consisting of:

- $35K Model 3 introduction
- 373K first month reservations
- accelerating 500K production to 2018
- SolarCity acquisition
- integrated Solar Roof, inverter and Powerwall
- Production cells from the GigaFactory
- Utility scale orders for Tesla Energy
- Level 5 Autonomy hardware in all cars
- Tesla Network autonomous car service plan

No other tech company except possibly Amazon has put in place this many competitive barriers IMO, and they took longer to do it.
the difference between Amazon and Tesla in your discussion is that Amazon actually put those moats into place... where everything on your list has not actually been accomplished. (with exception of 373k first month reservations... which I see as nothing more than a marketing accomplishment)

additionally... each one of the items on your list has very large risks... and now that they are combined... each risk can affect the others making this compounding... for example... if SCTY breaks down and sucks cash from the company... that would affect all the rest... another... the amount of effort put into fully autonomous distracts from M3 success... etc.

I think it's possible that what will be studied in biz school is a company that had lots of potential but failed to understand the meaning of risk.
 
if they do not show GAAP positive in 3 days... will you feel kind of silly talking about discussing Taxi contracts 5 to 10 years out of a completely unproven concept? (hint: your first M3 will not be fully autonomous)

Sorry, didn't follow. Why would being slightly GAAP positive or negative in a single quarter have any impact on the long term prospects for Tesla Mobility?

Do you see any other company beating Tesla to Level 5 autonomy? If so, they are really hiding their progress super well.

Isn't it more silly to be caught holding worthless puts 5 days before earnings for a record breaking quarter?
 
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