Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?

[tomas]

Doesn't this become mandatory this month in the US?

Auto manufacturers requested implementation delay in June. There is no evidence that 9/2014 implementation is happening, including no final draft of rule from NHTSA.
If you look at EU rule as example, it is unlikely that US rule would require retrofit... at least not immediately. Seems to start with new models, then all new cars, then ????
This is a can of worms. Delicate balance between pedestrian safety and noise pollution. All of the automakers are against quick implementation - Tesla doesn't need to lift a finger on this lobbying effort.

 

[CatB]

I like it Nigel, normally I turn on my radio and crack a window, but now I am thinking I should have Die Walkure on a playlist all by itself

I have to smile at the pollution perspective - cars were originally touted as a way to get rid of horse pollution in crowded cities. If they make us add noise pollution to our EVs, that have solved 2 pollution issues in one step... So backwards. Haven't there been studies about the health effect on people who live too close to noisy highways? I would think their concerns should tip the argument somewhat.

 

[GaryREM]

Wonder what the requirements for the sound it self is

My vote is for white noise

+1

Contributing to noise pollution is just no good.

The only one's who have a legitimate need are the visually impaired. Couldn't we do something that would transmit a warning signal to them (with directional information)?

 

[tomas]

The only one's who have a legitimate need are the visually impaired. Couldn't we do something that would transmit a warning signal to them (with directional information)?

you mean use technology to solve a problem vs falling back on conventional thinking? What a great idea, but not something governments do, sadly.

 

[PhilBa]

Since it's going to happen, why not allow downloading of an MP3 (or what ever) clip? Personally, I'd like to play the sound of electrical arcs. Definitely will get people's attention.

 

[tomas]

Since it's going to happen, why not allow downloading of an MP3 (or what ever) clip? Personally, I'd like to play the sound of electrical arcs. Definitely will get people's attention.

This is exactly what should NOT happen, and this is why it is a can of worms. You know some wise guy will decide that the sound of gunshots, screaming, or some other horrifying sound is the "ping tone" that fits their identity. And, even without horrifying noises, can you imagine the noise pollution of everybody's favorite song/tone all competing at crowded intersections?

 

[ecarfan]

Since it's going to happen, why not allow downloading of an MP3 (or what ever) clip? Personally, I'd like to play the sound of electrical arcs. Definitely will get people's attention.

Please Tesla do not ever allow that capability. Custom ring tones are already annoying. Custom car sounds would be extremely annoying.

 

[PhilBa]

This is exactly what should NOT happen, and this is why it is a can of worms. You know some wise guy will decide that the sound of gunshots, screaming, or some other horrifying sound is the "ping tone" that fits their identity. And, even without horrifying noises, can you imagine the noise pollution of everybody's favorite song/tone all competing at crowded intersections?

ad absurdum. 99% of people would use the default. as it is, people can and do replace their horns with all sorts of sounds. At a crowded intersection, other noises will dominate. Do you think it's a good idea for someone to try to enforce their idea of taste, good or bad?

 

[roblab]

Remote doorbell chimes. Button (remote) in car with other stuff in center. Battery operated. Cheap. Noise (sound) variable, choose what you like. Volume variable. Stick (velcro, zip ties) noisy part behind nose cone. Push button when you feel the need.

I don't feel the need.

Totally eliminates having to get the government to do something simple for people with paranoia.

 

[ecarfan]

I don't know anyone who has changed the sound of the stock factory horn on their car. Yes, some people do it, but very few because it takes quite a bit of effort.

Making it easy to download a new horn tone would mean that many people would do it, just like a large percentage of cell phone users customize their ring tone.

Car horn tones need to be fairly uniform so that they are easily recognized and responded to. It's a public safety issue, not an issue of personal liberty or personal taste.

 

[ggies07]

Not sure if this has been talked about in here, buy the new Kia EV will have a sound when slowed down around pedestrian crossing speeds.

 

[hcsharp]

I live in Florida and we have quite a population of {ahem} older folk; seems to me that they don't always hear as well as you or I. Our Main Street has a 15mph speed limit and I see people stepping out in front of ICE cars all the time. Personally I don't want to see our lives surrounded by sound but if it's going to happen shouldn't it be loud enough for the most vunerable to hear, and naturally cover ALL vehicles?

Nothing would be worse for the hearing impaired than a mandated sound. Unlike most of the rest of you, I know from experience. I have 93 - 95 db hearing loss in each ear, depending on frequency. When I first became nearly deaf due to an inner ear disorder 20 yrs ago, I found that I could no longer cross a street or walk around a parking lot and depend on my hearing to know if I was about to be run over. I adapted fairly quickly. I rely on vision and other ques. Additional noise would not only be no help at all, it would make my life far worse. When I'm trying to talk to somebody and there's background noise, forget it.

The point I'm trying to make is the so-called solution to a problem will only create more problems. People will adapt, just like I did. They already are as EVs and other quiet vehicles become more prevalent. Mandating a solution that keeps us stuck with a far worse problem (noise pollution) is just dumb.

Maybe there's a legitimate concern for blind persons. But is this the best solution? With all the technology we have, I doubt it. We have a history of providing access to disabled people in this country, and that's a good thing because society as a whole benefits. But we generally don't implement accessibility solutions that create a greater hazard for society as a whole, which I believe this would. There's almost certainly better technology than making noise pollution.

 

[caddieo]

Nothing would be worse for the hearing impaired than a mandated sound. Unlike most of the rest of you, I know from experience. I have 93 - 95 db hearing loss in each ear, depending on frequency. When I first became nearly deaf due to an inner ear disorder 20 yrs ago, I found that I could no longer cross a street or walk around a parking lot and depend on my hearing to know if I was about to be run over. I adapted fairly quickly. I rely on vision and other ques. Additional noise would not only be no help at all, it would make my life far worse. When I'm trying to talk to somebody and there's background noise, forget it.

The point I'm trying to make is the so-called solution to a problem will only create more problems. People will adapt, just like I did. They already are as EVs and other quiet vehicles become more prevalent. Mandating a solution that keeps us stuck with a far worse problem (noise pollution) is just dumb.

Maybe there's a legitimate concern for blind persons. But is this the best solution? With all the technology we have, I doubt it. We have a history of providing access to disabled people in this country, and that's a good thing because society as a whole benefits. But we generally don't implement accessibility solutions that create a greater hazard for society as a whole, which I believe this would. There's almost certainly better technology than making noise pollution.

+100. I am also hearing impaired and can empathize and share the above opinion.

 

[Madartist]

@hcsharp and @caddieo. Thank you for adding your unique perspectives to his debate. Ever since I became an EV owner, I've been looking forward to a world with less noise pollution. This was particularly poignant when we visited NYC recently. For this reason, I would strongly oppose any mandate to add more noise where silent is the natural state in an EV. Nevertheless, I'm also willing to support such mandate (albeit reluctantly) if it does indeed make it safer for those with hearing impairment. Please continue to speak out whenever possible to educate all of us (and most of all, the bureaucrats) on the merits of silence.

 

[BlueTan85]

I find all too often I am creeping along in the car at less than 5mph in a parking lot or tiny neighborhood street, and someone is walking out in front, their back to my car, oblivious to its approach.

At times like this I would not mind at all if the car said "excuse me, pardon me" etc, and I know JUST the recording to get it from:

 

[NigelM]

Nothing would be worse for the hearing impaired than a mandated sound. Unlike most of the rest of you, I know from experience. I have 93 - 95 db hearing loss in each ear, depending on frequency. When I first became nearly deaf due to an inner ear disorder 20 yrs ago, I found that I could no longer cross a street or walk around a parking lot and depend on my hearing to know if I was about to be run over. I adapted fairly quickly. I rely on vision and other ques. Additional noise would not only be no help at all, it would make my life far worse. When I'm trying to talk to somebody and there's background noise, forget it.

The point I'm trying to make is the so-called solution to a problem will only create more problems. People will adapt, just like I did. They already are as EVs and other quiet vehicles become more prevalent. Mandating a solution that keeps us stuck with a far worse problem (noise pollution) is just dumb.

Maybe there's a legitimate concern for blind persons. But is this the best solution? With all the technology we have, I doubt it. We have a history of providing access to disabled people in this country, and that's a good thing because society as a whole benefits. But we generally don't implement accessibility solutions that create a greater hazard for society as a whole, which I believe this would. There's almost certainly better technology than making noise pollution.

Excellent points to help the discussion Henry.

I spoke to a blind person about car's sounds some time back and he laughed at me saying "You think I cross the road anywhere but at a pedestrian crossing?" and on a more serious note talked about visually impaired folks sensitivity to sound levels. Makes you wonder if mandated noise is just there to protect the 'fully capable but slightly stupid' among us.

 

[dsm363]

The fully capable but slightly stupid are likely listening to music on headphones on on a call not paying attention so sound means nothing. If both driver and pedestrian are not paying attention then it wouldn't matter.

 

[caddieo]

If both driver and pedestrian are not paying attention then it wouldn't matter.

This sums it up. There is only so much that can be done to protect us from ourselves.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I also greatly appreciate Henry's and Archie's contribution to this discussion.

I really fear that there will be serious unintended consequences by any government imposed regulation it this area in its attempt to address a perceived threat to special groups.

Like others I'm beginning to think that a suitable pedestrian horn would be a reasonable compromise.

Larry

 

[ggr]

The whole EV-sound thing is yet another ploy by the oil cartel to make EVs sound stupid. It has no basis in fact.