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Should I or not?....Re-thinking...

Discussion in 'Model 3: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by voyager69, Apr 8, 2018.

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Where should spend $60K?

Poll closed Apr 28, 2018.
  1. First production Model 3

    41 vote(s)
    52.6%
  2. Standard battery (about 45K) in early2019+ invest 15k

    24 vote(s)
    30.8%
  3. Buy Mercedes or BMW or similar car

    13 vote(s)
    16.7%
  1. voyager69

    voyager69 Member

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    I am in the April-June group. The invitation to design is expected anytime (in handful weeks).

    - Some of the reviews and the price-tag of $60k+ (upgrade + EAP) begs a question- Am I better off going with Model S or non-EV? The idea is supported by several ModelS owners who bought M3 and choose to sell it. That speaks volume.

    - Considering bankruptcy talks, quality issues and Mr. Musk needs to sleep at the factory, should I wait and see? Possibly go for Standard Battery version?

    - What are top three significant reasons I should go for Model 3? I drive about 10-25 miles/day. Some on Freeway. Do not want to spend more than 60-65K. However, I consider myself "a value" person. Is it worth? Please give me 3 reasons (including when I compare with Mercedes and Lexus's of the worlds)
     
  2. sreams

    sreams Member

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    I'm confused. You ask "Am I better off going Model S?", but there is no option for that in your poll.
     
  3. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    We now have our Model 3 and are quite pleased with it. As comparing to a Model S what size do you want? For us the Model 3 is a much better size, easier to park and much better efficiency. We just got back from a 850 mile road trip and paid $15 in SuperCharger fees. Try that on a gas car. And I for one will never consider a non plugin car. EVs are truly the future.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. Lolly

    Lolly Member

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    Being a reservation holder in the UK we're still looking at Q1 or Q2 next year at the earliest, fed up with waiting I recently bought a late 2016 S75D and have held onto the reservation 'just in case'. This is my first EV and I absolutely love it and will never willingly go back to ICE. If the S is not too big for you, you won't regret it, however, there isn't a M3 in the UK to even see so what do I know!
     
  5. NoVADrew

    NoVADrew Member

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    #5 NoVADrew, Apr 8, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    Seems like your mind is cherry picking the bad information to filter through. The overall reviews of the Model 3 have been stellar. The car has won several car of the year awards despite being largely unavailable to auto reviewers and available in only one config. Almost all of the negatives have been a result of unfamiliarity/lack of time with the UI or early builds with issues that have been resolved (stiff suspension, no AP controls on the scroll wheel, etc.).

    I, too, have seen "several" Model S owners who sold their Model 3. Any by several, I mean like 2-3 posters who did this as compared to dozens and dozens who have gone from the S to the 3 and absolutely love it, often more. Keep in mind you are talking about very well off people who drive a large, expensive car that is supposed to be at the top of Tesla's line-up. It would be pretty shocking if there were people who didn't prefer their S to a 3, given where the 3 is supposed to stack up. The fact that a lot of people prefer their 3 should be what's speaking volumes to you.

    As a natural skeptic myself, I firmly believe the bankruptcy talks were a function of (1) the overall market decline the past couple weeks, coupled with (2) the long official information gap from Tesla. As soon as Tesla's production numbers came out and showed they were on track, the stock went up 20%. With such a watched company as Tesla, the media needs a steady stream of information to feed the rabid base, including those betting against it. The current articles talking about how Tesla is going to run out of cash are incredibly shallow. Of course they don't have enough cash to meet their ambitious growth plans... that's why they'll do an equity raise as soon as they get Model 3 production on track and operating at a respectable gross margin. That will show the market that they can make money on their massive investment and are worthy of getting more of the market's money for the next phase (Model Y, Semi and Roadster). Anecdotally, the exploding number of Teslas I see in the DC area and the interest from people in my office who see my Tesla desktop phone charger, speaks to a company doing everything right in the market. There are a handful of levers they could pull to flip to profitability if the situation actually got dire. In my view, the cash issue will be resolved (favorably) in the next 6-8 months, especially if they are able to flip to a profit on an operating basis in 2018 as planned.

    I am also a value person, and I built a spreadsheet way early on in the process to prove out the value in the car as compared to other vehicles I would purchase, like a maxed out Accord or an Acura TSX. Here is some quick math:
    $50,000 base price (LR, PUP, Color)
    - 7,500 fed tax credit
    42,500 price after credit
    (7,500) 10-year gas savings vs current car/comparable MB or Lexus (YMMV)
    35,000 effective price

    Then factor in things like Autopilot (+$5,000) that no other company is currently offering at this price range, a potential state tax credit (-$2,500 or more), and potential maintenance savings. So if you are looking at an ICE car that's not ultra fuel efficient as a comparable, $35k is around the relative value. That's around the same price as an entry level luxury ICE car with no options and decently worse performance. I personally view Autopilot as a toy for myself that I certainly don't need but can't imagine getting my Tesla without, so while it adds to my overall price, I don't take it into account in my comparison with other cars that don't offer anything comparable.

    If you don't know why you should get a Tesla vs an MB or a Lexus, then I'm surprised you're on this forum in the first place. You buy a Tesla because you want the auto industry's leading engineering, performance & driving technology while making a difference in the future of the Earth. You want one of the safest cars available. You're tired of the legacy auto cartel polluting the Earth, faking emissions tests, and trying to squash progress on improved MPG and electric vehicles. You want the convenience of never stopping at a gas station again and starting your day with full range every day. You don't like dealing with unnecessary and inefficient auto dealerships. You also are probably be a fan of, or at least okay with, Tesla's minimalist design philosophy. And let's be real, many of us also love the blend of style, rebelliousness, and cutting edge cool that Tesla, Elon, Franz, etc. espouse. It's a great company that has turned a massive, and often boring, industry on its head in a little over a decade.
     
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  6. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Here’s another anecdote from a former Model S owner of five years— the Model S was the best car I’ve ever driven, until I got my Model 3.

    I would never buy another ICE, no matter how luxurious the interior. I don’t even understand how anyone would consider a Mercedes or Lexus if they have the means to buy a Tesla and are able to have a 240V outlet installed at home. Words can’t describe the difference.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Love x 1
  7. SMAlset

    SMAlset Well-Known Member

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    If you're assumption is that people who are selling their Model 3s already are doing it because they don't like it, I think you'd be under a wrong impression. Model 3 invitee here waiting for AWD and air suspension. I have been so tempted to pull the trigger after I got my invite because I'd like to be driving one now instead of my old ICE vehicle. Believe me if I thought it was worth my effort to buy the LR version and sell it to pick up an AWD later, I would and I'm sure there would be willing buyers for it to get it earlier than they otherwise could. I'm sure there may be some people who didn't like it as much as they had hoped who sold it for that reason but unless they went for an MS or MX or are waiting for another version of the Model 3, I think that group of people is relatively small.
     
  8. voyager69

    voyager69 Member

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    Thank you, everyone, who responded.

    NoVADrew, thank you for the detailed and specific points to address my questions.

    Models S and Model X - I can go and see in the Tesla sales center; take a test drive.

    What compensates for missing luxurious interior and justifies 60K? Technology integration is touted as one of the biggest selling points. Without a test drive or real car in the showroom, where can who the technology integrations or other items. Very disappointed in listening stories of quality issues and Tesla making no effort of putting a couple of hundred cars in the Showrooms(one per store) across the nation.

    Again, I thank you very much for your effort, time and response.
     
  9. voyager69

    voyager69 Member

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    My bad - I should have used corrected number instead of 60K - savings of about 10-15K which NoVADrew had pointed out.
     
  10. S'toon

    S'toon Knows where his towel is

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    Just a suggestion, maybe go for a test drive in an S or X to see why people like driving them vs. ICE vehicles. I've only been a passenger in an S, and know what the "Tesla Smile" means since then.



     
  11. NoVADrew

    NoVADrew Member

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    Not an ideal solution, but if test driving the car would put your mind at ease, you could rent one on Turo for a day. Here's one in Plano (I see you're in Dallas). Perhaps another forum member would let you drive theirs to avoid the rental charge.

    Luxury is in the eye of the beholder. From my experience, the seats are very comfortable and the glass roof is a piece of art. From accounts here and in professional reviews, the sound is amazing and the UI is fast and well thought-out. For my $55k, give me this interior in a heartbeat over this or this. For many people, it's still hard to not equate luxury with number of buttons, so the Model 3 is a shock at first. Your tastes may vary... that's why there are hundreds of car models out there.
     
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  12. azred

    azred Active Member

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    Definitely buy the Mercedes or BMW. I have an S and a 3 but I make terrible decisions. BTW, asking a Tesla board whether you should buy another brand is a good idea. I should have checked with a BMW board before buying my Teslas.
     
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  13. svp6

    svp6 Member

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    After 2 months with the 3, and 3 years with a P85D, there is no question the model S was the better car (performance, quietness, ride comfort). That being said, the P85D was 124k vs. model 3 at 57.5k. A performance S would cost me today even more ( ~140k). At this time the difference is not justified for me. I am holding on to my 3 until Tesla is launching the revised model S interior, or until Porsche model E makes it to the market. May go through an interim AWD model 3 in between.
     
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  14. azred

    azred Active Member

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    Just talked to a 2015 Model S owner who said he’s thinking about selling his S in favor of a 3. His primary reason: He has a friend who works at the Tesla factory who told him the quality of the 3 is much better than his S. I own both models but I told him I thought his friend is full of crap. I did say I preferred commuting in the 3 due to its smaller size but would choose the S every time for longer drives. The $7500 tax credit is a huge carrot but I think its value is substantially reduced by the quality of an early build car. I am amazed when I read reports here from other owners who claim their cars have been flawless.
     
  15. voyager69

    voyager69 Member

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    Thank you, @azred, @NoVADrew, and rest of the Tesla lovers.

    @azred, My unusual approach of asking these questions(particularly around EV vs ICE) on the Tesla forums is more like customer satisfaction survey.

    Anyway, here is what I have done.

    - I had two M3 reservations. Canceled one of them. Purely result of production delays and did not want my 1k tied for additional 2 years (4 total).
    - So, I have one M3 which I am choosing to go with the standard battery instead of the long range. I just did not feel that extra miles are worth my time and money of getting the product which is going "a bit" through maturity/stabilization.

    Thank you for helping through a difficult decision.(trust me).
     
  16. voyager69

    voyager69 Member

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    BTW: We can close this thread. Thanks.
     
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  17. Qbenjamin

    Qbenjamin Frugal But Classy!

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    Interesting, here in FL it costs us about $9 to get about 175 miles of range from a SC.
     
  18. Galve2000

    Galve2000 Active Member

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    They musta taken then cheap route...
     
  19. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    Correction, the SuperChargers were $17 not 15 as I missed a $2 charge. But still far cheaper than Florida. Note I did start with a full battery and charged at my son's place so more likely $17 for 500 miles, so still cheaper than gas for a Prius and a lor more fun to drive.
     
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  20. ebmcs03

    ebmcs03 Active Member

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    For California supercharging is the same operating cost as Prius.

    Prius: $3.25 a gallon at 50 mpg is $0.065 a mile
    Model 3: $0.26 a kw if you get 4 miles per kw is $0.065 a mile
     
    • Informative x 1

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