My thoughts exactly. A RUD during that test would be the best possible outcome if it killed the program.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
SLS - On the Scent of Inevitable Capitulation
- Thread starter Nikxice
- Start date
e-FTW
New electron smell
Eric Berger highlights this at the end of this piece when talking about the Green-Run test: NASA just announced in a blog post that SLS will cost 30% more — Ars Technica
My emphasis:
This is what SpaceX does with each test, avoiding lengthy delays: they find issues early and fix them in the next test article. It is a constant cycle instead of years-long processes leading to a very high-stakes single test like SLS is doing.
e-FTW
New electron smell
Eric has a piece about this test: NASA tests a booster that produces 3 million pounds of thrust — Ars Technica
But worth the read is the last part. It explains (once more) why SLS is a thing, and why it is the way it is. I hate the wasted funds like everyone else, but it is inevitable: no one in Congress is actually elected for things they do for the whole country. They are elected locally, by and for local electors. So they make sure those electors get their share, no matter if it is the best choice for the country.
One example:
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Charlie Bolden says the quiet part out loud: SLS rocket will go away
QUOTE:
In an interview with Politicopublished Friday morning in the publication's Space newsletter, Bolden was asked what might happen during the next four years.
“SLS will go away," he said. "It could go away during a Biden administration or a next Trump administration… because at some point commercial entities are going to catch up. They are really going to build a heavy lift launch vehicle sort of like SLS that they will be able to fly for a much cheaper price than NASA can do SLS. That’s just the way it works.”
QUOTE:
In an interview with Politicopublished Friday morning in the publication's Space newsletter, Bolden was asked what might happen during the next four years.
“SLS will go away," he said. "It could go away during a Biden administration or a next Trump administration… because at some point commercial entities are going to catch up. They are really going to build a heavy lift launch vehicle sort of like SLS that they will be able to fly for a much cheaper price than NASA can do SLS. That’s just the way it works.”
e-FTW
New electron smell
Politico's story might have gone largely unnoticed. For the most part their interview with Charlie Bolden offered an overview of how NASA might shape up under a Biden administration. But when Bolden said, “SLS will go away", it was to be expected that Eric was prepared to gin up more trouble for SLS. The guy in the hot seat who has to deal with this stuff of course is poor Jimbo. He inherited a basket full of SLS ineptitude that he's been obligated to defend. Maybe Joe B will ask him to stay on, but if the Dems flip the Senate it might hasten his departure.
I suppose it's noteworthy that Bolden has changed his tune about SLS, but what I found most interesting were his comments concerning the next NASA Administrator. From the Bolden interview, "I think it’s critical to have a woman,” he said. “There are well-qualified women out there who are steeped in history in terms of their involvement with NASA or other organizations.” A woman has never held the top job at the space agency." Without mentioning names he's probably talking about the odds on favorite, Lori Garver. She's a former NASA Deputy Administrator, also a former GM of my old ALPA. She's currently the CEO of Earthrise Alliance, which is an organization focused on combating climate change. If ever there was someone to oversee the demise of SLS and transition to cheaper reusable launch vehicles, Lori fits that role. To get more familiar with her, here's an example of her not holding back.
Lori Garver Says: NASA Should Dump Space Launch System – Parabolic Arc
A sample of her reflections on SpaceX and Commercial Crew Program.
Op-ed: Unleashing the Dragon – the NASA bargain behind this week's SpaceX launch
And just tonight she's active on Twitter. This post starts with an old quote from Bolden.
Lori Garver
@Lori_Garver
"The Falcon 9 Heavy may some day come about. It’s on the drawing board right now. SLS is real." We knew it wasn't true then & a decade & $20B later, SLS still isn't real & FH is flying. Charlie Bolden says the quiet part out loud: SLS rocket will go away
I suppose it's noteworthy that Bolden has changed his tune about SLS, but what I found most interesting were his comments concerning the next NASA Administrator. From the Bolden interview, "I think it’s critical to have a woman,” he said. “There are well-qualified women out there who are steeped in history in terms of their involvement with NASA or other organizations.” A woman has never held the top job at the space agency." Without mentioning names he's probably talking about the odds on favorite, Lori Garver. She's a former NASA Deputy Administrator, also a former GM of my old ALPA. She's currently the CEO of Earthrise Alliance, which is an organization focused on combating climate change. If ever there was someone to oversee the demise of SLS and transition to cheaper reusable launch vehicles, Lori fits that role. To get more familiar with her, here's an example of her not holding back.
Lori Garver Says: NASA Should Dump Space Launch System – Parabolic Arc
A sample of her reflections on SpaceX and Commercial Crew Program.
Op-ed: Unleashing the Dragon – the NASA bargain behind this week's SpaceX launch
And just tonight she's active on Twitter. This post starts with an old quote from Bolden.
Lori Garver
@Lori_Garver
"The Falcon 9 Heavy may some day come about. It’s on the drawing board right now. SLS is real." We knew it wasn't true then & a decade & $20B later, SLS still isn't real & FH is flying. Charlie Bolden says the quiet part out loud: SLS rocket will go away
Tim Dodd's 5 minute rant on SLS costs is rather informative.
It's at the 46:30 mark of his longer Artemis vs Apollo video
It's at the 46:30 mark of his longer Artemis vs Apollo video
SLS is single-use and extremely expensive. How many SLS are in the NASA budget to get back to the moon? And how many SLS would it take to reach Mars?
SpaceX is building reusable launch systems - which will significantly reduce cost.
It's inevitable that SLS will be dropped if/when there is a lower cost alternative.
A major challenge for NASA will be the impact of completely outsourcing vehicles and spacecraft - and what that will do to their workforce and their contractors.
SpaceX is building reusable launch systems - which will significantly reduce cost.
It's inevitable that SLS will be dropped if/when there is a lower cost alternative.
A major challenge for NASA will be the impact of completely outsourcing vehicles and spacecraft - and what that will do to their workforce and their contractors.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
There must be some fine point of definition I'm missing here.
I don't think NASA builds anything themselves. Hasn't everything always been outsourced to Boeing, etc.?
The difference is between being a fleet buyer and a company that designs products and outsources manufacturing.
mikegre
Member
I read your headline quickly and thought I was reading a quote from Biden (not Bolden). Threw me off for a second.
Jeff Hudson
Lovin the Tesla Life
Some people within NASA and their primary go-to contractors never liked the idea of in orbit refueling for extremely selfish and short sighted reasons. The politics of manned space flight mixed in with robotic scientific missions are fraught with intrigue and self interests. It is refreshing to say the least to watch SpaceX shred the old school norms.
The SLS rocket may have curbed development of on-orbit refueling for a decade
The SLS rocket may have curbed development of on-orbit refueling for a decade
commercial crew is certainly a success.... thanks to Elon/SpaceX.
But just think, if SpaceX hadn’t been around, commercial crew would STILL be considered non-viable to date.
But just think, if SpaceX hadn’t been around, commercial crew would STILL be considered non-viable to date.
I've probably said it before, but one of my complaints with SLS (besides the huge cost) is their single use of the previously flown reusable RS-25 shuttle engines. Given the cost of refurbishment and that they expect to produce new ones, they should just use the new ones and reduced their unit cost by producing more of them. Instead of being dumped into the ocean, those flown shuttle engines should be in museums.
Seems to be an uptick of "its stupid they're doing it that way" posts, so its probably worth beating the horse:
a) Whether we approve of it or not (I don't, to be clear), SLS is a state funded mission with different objectives than private sector endeavors. Specifically, low cost is not just not an objective, the general belief is that the more it costs the more American Space benefits. See: Shelby.
b) SLS is like 10 years old, and its a spinoff of an even older program (Ares) which I think is probably 15-20 years old. That's all WAY before launcher reusability was a household concept, so its silly to complain about the lack of reusability on SLS. That's like saying Tesla is *sugar* because you can't supercharge a roadster.
a) Whether we approve of it or not (I don't, to be clear), SLS is a state funded mission with different objectives than private sector endeavors. Specifically, low cost is not just not an objective, the general belief is that the more it costs the more American Space benefits. See: Shelby.
b) SLS is like 10 years old, and its a spinoff of an even older program (Ares) which I think is probably 15-20 years old. That's all WAY before launcher reusability was a household concept, so its silly to complain about the lack of reusability on SLS. That's like saying Tesla is *sugar* because you can't supercharge a roadster.
SmartElectric
Active Member
Indeed. What an incredible engine, doomed to crash and not be reused like they were in Shuttle. SpaceX is making engines with the smallest weight/production cost vs thrust, which seems like the right compromise vs RS-25 focus on pure performance with no regard to production complexity or cost...
Hopefully cancel.
Normally I’m all for government spending on NASA and believe NASA is very important but the SLS is certainly a boondoggle now with SpaceX making great strides. The SLS money would be much better off spent elsewhere. Perhaps more SpaceX contracts and to help with Starship.
Similar threads
