'Smart' Home Chargers

[GM99]

Anyone have any thoughts on how the functionality of 'Smart' Home Chargers might evolve in the future.

Have thought that at some point the government will start to add a 'fuel tax' type equivalent for home charging of electric vehicles.
Presumably the functionality in the smart charging units will make it easier to isolate the specific car charging cost from the normal domestic electricity usage if this is introduced.

Just wondering whether this would make the 'non-smart' Tesla wall connector to go under the radar if a future additional tax was added to home charging.
This would make the Tesla wall connector a more attractive proposition even though it's not eligible for the OLEV grant.

 

[TheEVadvisor]

everything is possible, who knows what new tricks they have up their street. They can certainly see your usage patterns and roughly what things in the house are causing the energy surge, kettle, immersion heater, power shower, lighting, car charging

 

[goRt]

The current purpose of smart is to allow the DNO to balance the draw as ev home charging becomes more prevalent - 7.4kw between 00:30 and 04:30 on octopus is ok while I'm the only one doing it, but once everyone in the street starts then balancing limits will be applied.

Per mile time of day road pricing is the correct approach, nothing to do with the cost of 'fuel'.

 

[dan223]

There seems to be some scaremongering regarding smart chargers, each charger uses different apps and have different communication settings, for the government to be able to taxed based on these are next to impossible. The main reason as @goRt mentioned is to balance the electric so not everyone is charging at the same time, and then different areas or customers can be given different cheaper rates to charge to spread the load on the grid. I'm sure once there does become much more EV's on the road then a per mile tax basis will be introduced, which is much fairer way of taxing tbh.

 

[TestPilot]

I have a "smart" Pod Point, it's WiFi, joining it onto the network is optional, so if something undesirable starts happening I'll just disconnect it.

 

[goRt]

I have a "smart" Pod Point, it's WiFi, joining it onto the network is optional, so if something undesirable starts happening I'll just disconnect it.

Unfortunately, your WiFi isn't the network the DNO uses for control.

 

[TestPilot]

Unfortunately, your WiFi isn't the network the DNO uses for control.

Sure I get that, it's the part where people are scared that EV charging will be taxed/charged differently from regular electricity use.

 

[goRt]

Sure I get that, it's the part where people are scared that EV charging will be taxed/charged differently from regular electricity use.

Why post up something you knew was wrong then?

 

[TestPilot]

Why post up something you knew was wrong then?

Wait what?

My understanding is the only thing that makes a charger "smart" is that it communicates over WiFi or cellular. Anything else is done at the operator/provider end no?

 

[goRt]

You said

I have a "smart" Pod Point, it's WiFi, joining it onto the network is optional, so if something undesirable starts happening I'll just disconnect it.

I corrected

Unfortunately, your WiFi isn't the network the DNO uses for control.

You said you knew that

Sure I get that, it's the part where people are scared that EV charging will be taxed/charged differently from regular electricity use.

I asked why post something you knew was wrong

Why post up something you knew was wrong then?

You then move away from the point being discussed back to a wild guess on the reason for smart meters when I'd already stated the purpose to allow DNOs to balance their network load.

Wait what?

My understanding is the only thing that makes a charger "smart" is that it communicates over WiFi or cellular. Anything else is done at the operator/provider end no?

 

[TestPilot]

Wow, wrong side of the bed?

This discussion is about smart chargers right? So tell me, what makes a charger smart, and what does that have to do with the operators being able to balance load? If I turn the "smart" off on my charger it essentially makes it "dumb" but it doesn't stop load balancing.

 

[goRt]

Wow, wrong side of the bed?

This discussion is about smart chargers right? So tell me, what makes a charger smart, and what does that have to do with the operators being able to balance load? If I turn the "smart" off on my charger it essentially makes it "dumb" but it doesn't stop load balancing.

I pointed out the principle reason all charge point (not chargers, they're in the car) installs after 30/Jun/19 have to be smart - to allow DNOs control over their network load.
Additional features have been added for end-user convenience.

I also responded that road-based usage charges (time/load based) are the correct solution.

 

[TestPilot]

I pointed out the principle reason all charge point (not chargers, they're in the car) installs after 30/Jun/19 have to be smart - to allow DNOs control over their network load.
Additional features have been added for end-user convenience.

I also responded that road-based usage charges (time/load based) are the correct solution.

Ok, what I am trying to get to the bottom of is, (pedantry aside), if I turn off WiFi on my Pod Point, in what way is it smarter than a Tesla dumb charging point?

 

[Asterix187]

What I would like from a smart charger is to not be tied to a specific provider and for the charger to find the cheapest provider from all the providers and buy kWh units from them based on when I want to charge.

 

[goRt]

Ok, what I am trying to get to the bottom of is, (pedantry aside), if I turn off WiFi on my Pod Point, in what way is it smarter than a Tesla dumb charging point?

The DNO will be able to manage the draw to balance the load on its network - it does not use your broadband (wired or wireless) for this.

 

[goRt]

What I would like from a smart charger is to not be tied to a specific provider and for the charger to find the cheapest provider from all the providers and buy kWh units from them based on when I want to charge.

That's not how metering/service supply currently operates in the UK market, I#ve not seen anything to indicate a move in that direction.

 

[TestPilot]

The DNO will be able to manage the draw to balance the load on its network - it does not use your broadband (wired or wireless) for this.

How is this different to a dumb charging point?

 

[MrBadger]

I use to work in transportation research and the company that I worked for was on the inner sanctum of stuff like this. I didn't work in that area, but through knowledge exchange from a few years back, road time and use pricing is where its going to go, No one ever said that smart charging was never going to be priced, but I don't believe that it ever will be as that is not its function. That is the job of the smart gas and electricity meter.

Smart charging is all about giving those charging EV's easy access to times when energy supply is plentiful and/or cheap.

However, there is something called 'demand side response', which is basically keeping the lights on and something that people pushing smart meters conveniently forget to mention. Its already active in some commercial situations and will make its way to domestic situations too. It is needed, but them making the decisions need to be open about it otherwise it will all sound a bit Logan's Run. At its most benign, smart metering will make electricity pricing high at times of electricity drought to deter people from using it - read late afternoon, early/mid evening. Of course, the marketing carrot is cheap electricity at other times. At its worse, it could take the decision for people, hitting the big sources of energy demand - read your EV. That will be smart charger territory.

 

[goRt]

How is this different to a dumb charging point?

A cable/socket had no throttling capability in it.

 

[WannabeOwner]

the government will start to add a 'fuel tax' type equivalent for home charging of electric vehicles

I can't see that happening (been wrong before though ). I have Wall Charger outside my house and a Commando socket right next to it - I (and other folk too presumably ...) would just use the Commando. And my juice comes off my PV ... so taxing my use of it would become a a Political Eco-own-goal i reckon.

The current purpose of smart is to allow the DNO to balance the draw as ev home charging becomes more prevalent

That's my take too. Plus I think it is important - otherwise there will be huge spike on Grid when e.g. "Economy-7 starts"

Per mile time of day road pricing is the correct approach

And that I agree with too. Those that use the roads pay. Those that use the roads at periods of congestion pay more. How about if HGV pay nothing/very-little if they travel in the middle of the night? Opportunity to reduce congestion at the same time as replacing Fuel Duty with a Road Use Tax

I would like high emission vehicles to pay more ... I suppose if you have a "Rate per mile" then you can just up-lift that based on the car-type. (But we could wind up making old, dirty, diesel having to pay more, just at the time they are being passed down to the least well off, which would be a lousy outcome)

How we charge for this is a bit tricky. Could make it part of MOT "You've drive 10,000 miles this year, here's the bill" ... and people could elect to pay "£X a month" by way of offset.

Charging according to Car GPS would be better, but that is useless until cars on the road have that ability.

Cameras on the roads would work, but only for those roads where they exist - maybe that is already all the main aerial routes and thus very few new ones would be needed?