Snowflake, Regen dots and propulsion dots data

[bijan]

I've started recording obd2 data and taking screenshots of the app touchscreen in order to document the snowflake, Regen dots and propulsion dots.

This is on my long range AWD.

Basically want to figure out the following 3 things:
1. At what battery temperature do you first get snowflake for each state of charge.
2. What is max regen in kw for each number of dots
3. What is max power in kw for each number of propulsion dots.

It would be nice to figure out how many Regen dots you get at a particular battery temperature but that depends on temperature and state of charge so would require a ton of data.

So far I have the following data points:
Snowflake at 8C battery temperature at 50% SOC
Snowflake at 0C battery temperature at 80% SOC

16-17 Regen dots is 21-24kw max regen
11 Regen dots is 34kw max regen
10 Regen dots is 42kw max regen
8 Regen dots is 49kw max regen

Haven't recorded propulsion dots data yet though I have gotten the dots a few times.

 

[ewoodrick]

Don't worry, it will probably change in another software release.

 

[bijan]

Don't worry, it will probably change in another software release.

Yes I do wonder about this. I get Regen dots at 90% at temperatures I didn't last year. I wonder if the temperature the limits start at was changed or the definition of the dots ( ie Regen was already limited before but such small limits were not visualized).

 

[mswlogo]

Yes I do wonder about this. I get Regen dots at 90% at temperatures I didn't last year. I wonder if the temperature the limits start at was changed or the definition of the dots ( ie Regen was already limited before but such small limits were not visualized).

I get regen dots in July at 90%. When at that high a SOC it’s more about how full a battery is than how cold it is.

Note it’s also believed that AWD (which mine was) can regen higher than RWD so can get limited more easily.

If you adjust your driving habits accordingly, the difference between 75% limited regen and 20% is negligible (most of the time). In fact, in some situations (mainly highway) limited regen is MORE efficient than full regen. That’s part of the reason that low regen option exists. Coasting is more efficient than regen. You can’t always coast, like around town or in traffic ( that’s when regen wins). But if you can coast (like highway) coasting it better than losing energy via charging losses. If regen was 100% efficient then it would be different story. But since it’s not 100% efficient it’s not as big a deal that people make it out to be. Just let up on the throttle sooner to slow down in time.

Low regen does not mean lost energy it’s just deferred or stretched out when you can use it.

 

[pcons]

Yes I do wonder about this. I get Regen dots at 90% at temperatures I didn't last year. I wonder if the temperature the limits start at was changed or the definition of the dots ( ie Regen was already limited before but such small limits were not visualized).

Great idea to log this data for those of us that like to dig under the hood a bit!

The Regen behavior vs SOC vs pack temp definitely changed since last year. I posted back a few months ago that I was getting Regen limited at 80% SOC even when it was still 25C out. Previously I was able to charge to 90 and have no Regen limitations.

That being said, I agree that this really only affects high speed Regen for the most part. However, when cold temps factor in you basically lose Regen completely. None of my other EVs have acted like this and it has taken some getting used to....still feels 'wrong' to me, but I'm not a tesla engineer so can't do much to change it

 

[bijan]

Great idea to log this data for those of us that like to dig under the hood a bit!

The Regen behavior vs SOC vs pack temp definitely changed since last year. I posted back a few months ago that I was getting Regen limited at 80% SOC even when it was still 25C out. Previously I was able to charge to 90 and have no Regen limitations.

That being said, I agree that this really only affects high speed Regen for the most part. However, when cold temps factor in you basically lose Regen completely. None of my other EVs have acted like this and it has taken some getting used to....still feels 'wrong' to me, but I'm not a tesla engineer so can't do much to change it

I would really like to see the data on other EVs and how they do it. The bolt for example will limit fast charging to well below Regen levels at high soc and low battery temperature (you're not getting 60kw CCS charging so how does it do 60kw Regen in the cold). I wonder if they assume Regen is short so it won't hurt the battery or if they blend in the brakes to make up the difference.

 

[bijan]

A few more quick data points.

14 Regen dots and 27kw (contradicts some of the previous data but was at.a lower soc so not sure if that is a factor)
6 Regen dots 57kw
0 Regen dots 72kw (I've seen a higher limit I think I've seen it over 80kw although it almost never regenerates more than in the 70s).

Seems it's about 3kw per Regen dot with some variation but I think the Regen limit number shifts around quite a bit.

5 propulsion dots 179kw max discharge powrr

 

[bijan]

New data, most interestingly:
25 dots and 0kw regen limit (78% SoC and battery about -2C).
20 dots and 15.7kw regen limit (68% SoC and battery about 4C).

6 propulsion dots and 155kw max discharge (78% SoC and battery about -2C).
2 propulsion dots and 232kw max dischager (68% SoC and battery about 4C).

 

[pcons]

New data, most interestingly:
25 dots and 0kw regen limit (78% SoC and battery about -2C).
20 dots and 15.7kw regen limit (68% SoC and battery about 4C).

6 propulsion dots and 155kw max discharge (78% SoC and battery about -2C).
2 propulsion dots and 232kw max dischager (68% SoC and battery about 4C).

Interesting indeed. I see slightly different:

Start of drive 0kw regen, SOC 62%, battery -2C, max power 200 kw
After daycare dropoff 15.8 kw regen, SOC 60%, battery 3C, max power 222kw

No propulsion dots, did not count regen dots.

 

[bijan]

Interesting indeed. I see slightly different:

Start of drive 0kw regen, SOC 62%, battery -2C, max power 200 kw
After daycare dropoff 15.8 kw regen, SOC 60%, battery 3C, max power 222kw

No propulsion dots, did not count regen dots.

Very interesting. I wonder what other factor there is to propulsion dots/max power output. I wonder if there's some hysteresis between battery temperature over time and max power output. Or maybe something else is at play.

Also how did your battery warm up 5C after 2% SoC used? Mine warmed 6C in 10% SoC

 

[pcons]

Very interesting. I wonder what other factor there is to propulsion dots/max power output. I wonder if there's some hysteresis between battery temperature over time and max power output. Or maybe something else is at play.

Also how did your battery warm up 5C after 2% SoC used? Mine warmed 6C in 10% SoC

Best guess is because I had HVAC on high and actually pre conditioned so maybe the liquid flowing through the battery was hotter than yours. I only drove about 3-4 km, but consumed 2% so efficiency was terrible.

 

[bijan]

Best guess is because I had HVAC on high and actually pre conditioned so maybe the liquid flowing through the battery was hotter than yours. I only drive about 3-4 km, but consumed 2% so efficiency was terrible.

If you preconditioned while plugged in it will run battery heater up to 10C. Otherwise probably as you suggest.

 

[pcons]

If you preconditioned while plugged in it will run battery heater up to 10C. Otherwise probably as you suggest.

I wasn't plugged in for the pre condition. But had to run it because of the freezing rain. I've had a fun time these last two days with frozen windows and door handles. I've decided I need to carry a slim jim or other thin metal piece to break the ice away from the window on days like this. Didn't have any issues last winter but know others had freezing issues like this.

 

[bijan]

I wasn't plugged in for the pre condition. But had to run it because of the freezing rain. I've had a fun time these last two days with frozen windows and door handles. I've decided I need to carry a slim jim or other thin metal piece to break the ice away from the window on days like this. Didn't have any issues last winter but know others had freezing issues like this.

I've been having similar issues. I am able to open the door if I closed it when parking, since that causes the window to be rolled down a bit but other doors won't open. Then the door that did open won't close unless I force the window down a bit by pushing it down (I should probably use a credit card to unfreeze the window but I've been going in a hurry).

And the door handles have been freezing and I've been pressing down on the thumb part as hard as I could, today I used a piece of hard plastic so that I could push with both hands.

 

[tinyrodent]

I've been using a plastic putty knife similar to the small one in this package: Putty Knife Set, 3-pc | Canadian Tire

Mainly it freezes along the bottom edge of the window, and this tool works ok, but I'm concerned about long term damage to the frozen rubber. One time the front passenger door opened but then when I closed it, the window didn't go down, and it dented the chrome trim. Lessons learned: 1) test the windows before trying to open the door, and 2) test them again before trying to close it.

 

[pcons]

Had to run out to grab something tonight. Grabbed another data point and attached a screenshot. But here soc was 57%, Regen was basically 0, battery was 0C min 1C max (didn't show max in screenshot but it populated later), and max power was 211 kw.