So… Highland is out…

[FastLaneJB]

Has this ever been definitively confirmed or is cost saving as the reason speculation?

Why else would they do it? No ones ever said stalks ruin the aesthetics of a car.

I’d like to think they’ve got data on a lot of things which drive decisions. So if you look at the highland they’ve added things that would have increased cost I imagine like better noise insulation, better suspension, ambient lighting, cooling seats, rear touch screen, etc.

In reverse the EV market especially in China is cut throat and they must have wanted to keep the price to similar levels overall. To achieve this they’ve then taken things out of the car that they can. Some of it we cannot see and might simply be cost saving improvements in the number of parts to make the body. Others are small like removing the temperature sensor, horn (Now using the speaker I believe), fog lights. And the stalks of course is the bigger one.

So effectively they’ve mostly given us more car for the same money. I think that should be appreciated and I do. The one maybe misstep might be removing the stalks if it impacts sales too much. You might have found another £200 on the price and stalks could have sold higher than £200 cheaper without.

So there is clearly a method to their madness and for the most part a lot of their cost saving moves also make quite a bit of sense. If Tesla Vision can be good enough, why put in USS. Why have a rain sensor if Tesla Vision can do that also. The execution might not work out as we know but if it did, it’s sound engineering.

I mean take lack of driver display or HUD. Some complain but they sell well and it works fine without if you ask me. They’ll be saving money from skipping both.

 

[Zilla91]

Why else would they do it?

It's will have been a decree by Musk. Didn't the engineers have to add a steering wheel to the Model Y behind his back?

Edit: Yes, they did. New Book Says Musk Didn’t Want Model Y To Have A Steering Wheel

 

[Js1977]

You might have found another £200 on the price and stalks could have sold higher than £200 cheaper without.

To be honest im not really sure the £200 would mean anything and this most certainly would be the case with finance.

Indeed if you look at it, over the years, you sure get more car for less money than what you did before but I certainly can't put a price that I would pay one something ive always had before and ive have in excess of 60 cars including vans in my lifetime. It really is a hard one to explain looking back on the financial track record but im sure someone has the answer.

If I was being comical about it, I would say that the data they have shows that most people using the fleet dont bother using indicators which to you and me would be ex BMW drivers and for the most just buttons on the wheel are deemed fit for use.... Or Elon is just having a giraffe

 

[FastLaneJB]

To be honest im not really sure the £200 would mean anything and this most certainly would be the case with finance.

Indeed if you look at it, over the years, you sure get more car for less money than what you did before but I certainly can't put a price that I would pay one something ive always had before and ive have in excess of 60 cars including vans in my lifetime. It really is a hard one to explain looking back on the financial track record but im sure someone has the answer.

If I was being comical about it, I would say that the data they have shows that most people using the fleet dont bother using indicators which to you and me would be ex BMW drivers and for the most just buttons on the wheel are deemed fit for use.... Or Elon is just having a giraffe

Might be the case. I’m often annoyed on most trips sitting at a roundabout to find I could have joined the roundabout but had wrongly assumed the car going around was going to continue to do so because they weren’t indicating they were exiting so I’ve waited.

I wonder if you take a rush hour where there’s queues to get onto a roundabout. How much does the lack of people indicating increase the delays we all suffer because the flow of traffic is now slower.

Tesla probably does know and that despite wanting stalks, there’s enough people that don’t bother using them properly that they won’t miss them anyway.

 

[BissetY]

But did you not see the M3H is £39990 compared to the Model 3 which was 42990 or something like that in 2022?

Sounds like it will squeeze under the Tax grabbing government in 2025 for premium car tax, that’s got to have some weight to the strategy?!

 

[FastLaneJB]

Sounds like it will squeeze under the Tax grabbing government in 2025 for premium car tax, that’s got to have some weight to the strategy?!

True. £200 more for stalks could have then cost you also premium car tax for 5 years. I’m sure your right and just under £40k is pretty key for the UK going into next year.

They’ll fit steel wheels under the aero caps rather than let it go over £40k I imagine on the base model.

 

[JamesKG]

I have now had my Highland for 2 weeks and in my view “muscle memory” doesn’t address the buttons being inaccessible when indicating on certain road depending on how much turn of the wheel you make. I also remain concerned that given this is not intuitive, when you need react quickly this will lead to people being unable to indicate or stab at the buttons whilst taking their eyes off the road. I have lost count of the times I have wrongly indicated or been unable to, due to where the buttons are. I expect Tesla will lose a lot of business from this change, whether it be people who can’t get on with it/rental companies etc. I’m pretty much convinced one couldn’t take a driving test in this car (!), which begs the question is it safe? It just seems such a false economy to have made this change and in my complaints to Tesla they do seem to acknowledge a couple of weeks in this is an issue for some.,

 

[boombap]

Sounds like it will squeeze under the Tax grabbing government in 2025 for premium car tax, that’s got to have some weight to the strategy?!

That’s a bit 4D chess, highly unlikely it’s that complicated.
its Q1. Prices always decrease in Q1 because of seasonal demand.
They’ve started rising again in the USA, likely will hear again soon.

 

[BissetY]

That’s a bit 4D chess, highly unlikely it’s that complicated.
its Q1. Prices always decrease in Q1 because of seasonal demand.
They’ve started rising again in the USA, likely will hear again soon.

it’s a new model, imagine there is plenty of demand no matter the season… also indicated by people buying at a high APR.

It’s a common strategy for a mid-high range vehicle in UK.

 

[Js1977]

They’ll fit steel wheels under the aero caps rather than let it go over £40k I imagine on the base model.

Let's not forget that there might also be a new base model on the cards which Im not sure will be 25k either.

It will be interesting to see the next year develop anyways even if just out of curiosity for some of us.

 

[boombap]

it’s a new model, imagine there is plenty of demand no matter the season… also indicated by people buying at a high APR.

It’s a common strategy for a mid-high range vehicle in UK.

There’s always ‘demand’ but car industry wide, it’s usually ~40% lower between Christmas & early Feb. New model or not, prices will be lower now than they will be later in the year.

 

[FastLaneJB]

There’s always ‘demand’ but car industry wide, it’s usually ~40% lower between Christmas & early Feb. New model or not, prices will be lower now than they will be later in the year.

Not on a just refreshed model. If you look at the Model Y on PCP at 1.8% because they need to generate demand to shift enough at the moment. You can a Model Y Performance which is a £10k more expensive car for quite a significant amount less than a Model 3 LR at the moment on finance.

Most EV’s from other brands are on 0% APR currently because they cannot shift enough.

Saw something on this the other day and EV sales growth is solely from company fleet purchases, personal sales of EV’s dropped something like 15% YoY.

Give Highland 1 - 2 quarters to clear the early buyers out and I suspect it’ll be 4% or lower APR to keep demand up. I mean cannot see that demand is all that high. I can order one now and delivery date is Feb - March. So I could potentially order one and get it the same month, doesn’t really suggest some massive order backlog there.

 

[GRiLLA]

Not on a just refreshed model. If you look at the Model Y on PCP at 1.8% because they need to generate demand to shift enough at the moment. You can a Model Y Performance which is a £10k more expensive car for quite a significant amount less than a Model 3 LR at the moment on finance.

Most EV’s from other brands are on 0% APR currently because they cannot shift enough.

Saw something on this the other day and EV sales growth is solely from company fleet purchases, personal sales of EV’s dropped something like 15% YoY.

Give Highland 1 - 2 quarters to clear the early buyers out and I suspect it’ll be 4% or lower APR to keep demand up. I mean cannot see that demand is all that high. I can order one now and delivery date is Feb - March. So I could potentially order one and get it the same month, doesn’t really suggest some massive order backlog there.

'Massive order backlog' only happened as it was launched in the UK and during pandemic years when new Tesla were still more available than other brands. The rest of the time you've been able to order and either get one from stock or on the next delivery, so you can't really use that as a measure.

All new car sales are well below the peak, and this year legacy manufacturers are mandated to ship 22% zero emission vehicles at the same time as the government is taking down all planet saving measures as their american advisors are telling them it's a good wedge issue for the election. Discounting is going to be out of this world.

 

[FastLaneJB]

'Massive order backlog' only happened as it was launched in the UK and during pandemic years when new Tesla were still more available than other brands. The rest of the time you've been able to order and either get one from stock or on the next delivery, so you can't really use that as a measure.

All new car sales are well below the peak, and this year legacy manufacturers are mandated to ship 22% zero emission vehicles at the same time as the government is taking down all planet saving measures as their american advisors are telling them it's a good wedge issue for the election. Discounting is going to be out of this world.

Yes I mean frankly I appreciate that if you want a Tesla you can get one in 1 - 2 months tops. This is far faster than the 3 - 6 months you’ll find on other brands.

However it does mean they are keeping up with demand so if that wains enough say in all the markets Shanghai ships to then Tesla need to incentivise to bring sales back up to the numbers they need to keep the factory busy. You can see that despite the Model Y being a massive sales success, they still are having to incentivise sales because they clearly have more capacity than they do demand or it’s very close to that. They’ve got Germany of course doing the rest of Europe deliveries.

Model 3 had quite a few offers like Y before Highland. Sooner or later I think those will return as demand wains, just a matter of how long. My bet is that it’ll happen really quickly.

 

[Oxid8ter]

Model 3 had quite a few offers like Y before Highland. Sooner or later I think those will return as demand wains, just a matter of how long. My bet is that it’ll happen really quickly.

Ordered my highland in November on BlackHorse HP (stop gap whilst waiting on inheritance so the % didn't have much bearing for me) - what is interesting is that at the time of ordering it was 8.9%, on collection day the signing of the doc failed with an error, turned out it was an old plan and that the new plan is 8.5% making the car £3 a month cheaper.

On the flip side, there was a guy picking up a Model Y. At the time of him ordering there was the 3k deposit contribution and higher APR, on collection day it wouldn't let him sign - old plan again. They wanted him to use the lower 1.8% APR and not have a deposit contribution - this made his Y £40 a month more than if he had the 3k contribution plan.

Took Tesla 90 mins to sort me out, and this chap was being sorted alongside me. He was still waiting when we left.

 

[WannabeOwner]

they still are having to incentivise sales because they clearly have more capacity than they do demand ** AT THAT PRICE **

Building factories, increasing supply, the only business model they have (a far as I can see) is to erode margins - especially as theirs are the envy of their competitors. Ditto the reason why they have had short delivery times is that at times when demand has increased they jacked up the price to maintain that - multiple times when the first cost increase round didn't work! (and then laughed all the way to the bank of course). Incomprehensible to me why competitors didn't gazump too ...

 

[spdpsba]

Incomprehensible to me why competitors didn't gazump too ...

Because they are not Tesla…not many were or are willing to buy their electric cars

 

[FastLaneJB]

Building factories, increasing supply, the only business model they have (a far as I can see) is to erode margins - especially as theirs are the envy of their competitors. Ditto the reason why they have had short delivery times is that at times when demand has increased they jacked up the price to maintain that - multiple times when the first cost increase round didn't work! (and then laughed all the way to the bank of course). Incomprehensible to me why competitors didn't gazump too ...

Well economies of scale and also if they can remove parts from cars, like stalks and they still work and sell that also works. They can then either make more profit per car or lower the price / finance agreement when needed to drive demand yet still make sound profits.

The business model is good as long as people still want their cars and demand stays up.

 

[Js1977]

Incomprehensible to me why competitors didn't gazump too ...

If Im understangly this correctly, I would say the competitors would have to sell at a loss in order to do so?

 

[FastLaneJB]

Had a Highland SR test drive today. They didn’t have any LR’s so couldn’t see how the audio system has changed sadly but got to experience other parts of the car.

Probably the first item maybe not seen mentioned but it was chunking it down today, then spitting, then raining cats and dogs, then dry, then more rain. On the way there our 2023 Tesla Model 3 Performance on Auto treated me to minimal to no wiping when raining heavily and lots of almost dry wiping that had to just switch to manual.

The Highland in the 40 minutes I got to drive it was frankly perfect on auto. No complaints at all, it would speed up and slow down with the rain with no real noticeable delay. Now of course one 40 minute test does not equal conclusive results, especially when it comes to Tesla. But I feel like the improved cameras and they are improved can much better see the rain than the older lower res cameras. This makes sense that it should be able to be better and in this drive it was.

As for the rest of the car. It’s definitely quieter inside. They’ve done a good job there. The ride is improved but hard to tell what is the difference from 20 inch Performance wheels to 18 inch and what is the new suspension. It’s still not quite up to German standards but good enough you’d not have a problem with it.

Ventilated seats work well, light strip is also a nice change and the screen at the back is a welcome addition.

So… lack of stalks. I’ve no issue with the drive selection though it is a bit slower to flick between them when i tried a 3 point turn. Probably would get faster but i suspect you might never quite match having a stalk. Not a deal breaker at all.

Indicators I think i can deal with, they felt nice the buttons and on larger roundabouts I could get used to it reasonably well. On a mini round around where I had to put on full lock on I had to look down at the wheel and slowed down as I did it. I think I’d get used to it but mini roundabouts would take some practice. Once you start feeding the wheel you’ve lost where the button is.

I asked if they were getting many walking away from not having stalks to which the sales man admitted they are. I also asked about the performance and he didn’t pause before telling me Q3 / Q4. Could change but guessing they’ll announce first half of the year and be shipping by second half.

It’s a great car, won’t be for all as we’ve discussed but if you can deal with the lack of stalks you cannot go wrong.