So… Highland is out…

[WannabeOwner]

I think I’d get used to it but mini roundabouts would take some practice

I've reflected a bit on this and I'm not too worried about that. If my direction-of-travel is obvious, and I can't find the button in time, then "no drama"

What about when I am on a roundabout and I change my mind - I'm in inside lane (e.g. turning right - lets assume a decent sized 2-lane roundabout) and have now realised I near the earlier exit - so I urgently need to indicate left and change lanes.

That applies to any other "unexpected" urgent indicator signal. I'm parked by side of road and indicating right, to pull out, and then (at last moment) spot someone in blindspot - so I indicate LEFT to show that I have seen them and am not going to move. I probably won't have 180-degree steering on that time, but if I have to look at the wheel then I'm going to be fractionally later making the indicator change, which might be significant.

What if I want to flash my lights at someone "You go first"

Or (as has happened to me, on old car with lights on AUTO) at dusk I went down a narrow lane, it got very narrow with high banks and tree cover, and I desperately needed BEAM. At that time I was not able to override AUTO lights, and I had to brake to a stop, change settings, and continue.

It hasn't happened to me often, where I suddenly and urgently need BEAM, but my muscle memory is pretty intrenched for a stalk for that job

 

[FastLaneJB]

So I tend to feed the wheel most of the time so would be similar to you in this sense. If you keep your hands in place then you can make most roundabouts of a reasonable size without having to feed hands. If you can get used to that then your thumbs will always be near the buttons.

Otherwise though I think given time you’d get used to working out where the buttons are at whatever lock you are at. Maybe this is a week, maybe it’s a month, maybe it’s half a year but regardless I think most would get used to it.

I still think it’s the one miss of the refresh but seeing as my wife doesn’t really ever drive my car, I’d not say it’s a deal breaker so could still buy one. There are people and confirmed by their sales staff that will no longer entertain buying a Tesla Model 3 anymore so I still question if this will work out well for Tesla.

 

[Bouba]

I've reflected a bit on this and I'm not too worried about that. If my direction-of-travel is obvious, and I can't find the button in time, then "no drama"

What about when I am on a roundabout and I change my mind - I'm in inside lane (e.g. turning right - lets assume a decent sized 2-lane roundabout) and have now realised I near the earlier exit - so I urgently need to indicate left and change lanes.

That applies to any other "unexpected" urgent indicator signal. I'm parked by side of road and indicating right, to pull out, and then (at last moment) spot someone in blindspot - so I indicate LEFT to show that I have seen them and am not going to move. I probably won't have 180-degree steering on that time, but if I have to look at the wheel then I'm going to be fractionally later making the indicator change, which might be significant.

What if I want to flash my lights at someone "You go first"

Or (as has happened to me, on old car with lights on AUTO) at dusk I went down a narrow lane, it got very narrow with high banks and tree cover, and I desperately needed BEAM. At that time I was not able to override AUTO lights, and I had to brake to a stop, change settings, and continue.

It hasn't happened to me often, where I suddenly and urgently need BEAM, but my muscle memory is pretty intrenched for a stalk for that job

Muscle memory is not a new problem....how many times have you flashed your lights to acknowledge another driver only to have washer fluid on your windshield....the biggie is traveling between the UK and the Continent and being on the wrong side of the road...and even if you have driven on the other side for decades...in an emergency which way will you instinctively swerve to?
The point is that all cars have different arrangements and all countries different rules of the road...but we adapt very quickly...humans are good that way

 

[FastLaneJB]

Muscle memory is not a new problem....how many times have you flashed your lights to acknowledge another driver only to have washer fluid on your windshield....the biggie is traveling between the UK and the Continent and being on the wrong side of the road...and even if you have driven on the other side for decades...in an emergency which way will you instinctively swerve to?
The point is that all cars have different arrangements and all countries different rules of the road...but we adapt very quickly...humans are good that way

I have an answer in mind on this but it could be seen to be sexist so I’ll keep it to myself

You are right but it’s also quite natural that many people don’t like change and more so if they don’t believe that change is an improvement on what came before. So there will be a reasonable amount that simply won’t try it and give it a chance as they don’t have to, there’s other cars available that still have indicators… like all the other brands.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I’m not convinced “many people don’t like change” really applies to people who have been some of earliest to embrace arguably the biggest driving change.. switching to fully electric.

Change for the sake of change is arguably dumb, and if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I’m not convinced “many people don’t like change” really applies to people who have been some of earliest to embrace arguably the biggest driving change.. switching to fully electric.

Change for the sake of change is arguably dumb, and if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Yes you’re right but they cannot just rely on the early adopters if they want to grow their market share vs ICE.

Infact you can see from the rather large drop in EV sales in the UK to private buyers in the last year that people are actually moving away from EV, not towards it. At least when they don’t get massive tax breaks from having a EV. This I don’t think will help move the needle in the way Tesla wants.

 

[WannabeOwner]

Muscle memory is not a new problem....how many times have you flashed your lights to acknowledge another driver only to have washer fluid on your windshield....the biggie is traveling between the UK and the Continent and being on the wrong side of the road...and even if you have driven on the other side for decades...in an emergency which way will you instinctively swerve to?
The point is that all cars have different arrangements and all countries different rules of the road...but we adapt very quickly...humans are good that way

When we had one EU car and on Japanese we got that every time we switched cars (back when Japanese cars had opposite-side-stalks)

But I can't remember the last time I had that problem, so I suspect that stalks have been same-same for me, for all the brands that I have owned in a long time. Sometimes horn on the wheel (either as centre press, or as a button), sometimes button on end of stalk.

Personally I would prefer that these were standardised, along with limiting choice for "expression" with rear lights. In an emergency am I going to react as quickly if the car in front has some weird arrangement for its lights?

I don't like the Audi rear indicators that have a moving pattern - which VAG touted as being a significant improvement in safety. In normal road operation they attract most of my concentration - taking it away from other things that might need it.

And indicator - brake light - rear light combos, where some of it goes out, when other parts are in use, is just asking for a ram up the bum if you ask me ...

You are right about driving on the continent. I never thought much about it when I was young, just did it. Then we had an American client over and I asked them why they hadn't hired a car.

"Not confident to drive wrong-side-of-road"

"Really?"

"Yup, not sure in an emergency I would do the right thing"

I'd never thought of that, until then.

I take more care on the continent now and I brief passengers to "immediately go mental" if I do something daft, rather than Be-British / assume I am going to sort it out - like setting off on the wrong side of the road (done that more than once),

 

[FastLaneJB]

First time I took a RHD car over to Europe I only played chicken with other vehicles maybe 3 times on my trip into the Netherlands. I think that was pretty successful

It’s actually one of the reasons among others I’d have concerns having a LHD car like the Model S / X in the UK. If the steering wheel moves over, I wonder if I’ll get confused or will make a mistake and go onto the wrong side of the road. You’d think not but it could confuse you. I’ve been fine when I’ve hired a LHD on holiday so feel like the side of the wheel wires my brain to what side I need to drive.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I’ve been fine when I’ve hired a LHD on holiday so feel like the side of the wheel wires my brain to what side I need to drive.

I've had hire cars on the continent (i.e. LHD) and still "set off on the wrong side of the road", so I think side-of-road is what you are used to, not where the steering wheel is ...

... but like you I have also not persuaded myself to buy a Plaid MS - unless they do RHD ... although, I have one eye on prices, in case someone who took an early Plaid is wanting to get rid of it already. New Plaid Price + LHD no thanks. Plaid, LHD & Depreciation Discount? Yeah, I might do that.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I've had hire cars on the continent (i.e. LHD) and still "set off on the wrong side of the road", so I think side-of-road is what you are used to, not where the steering wheel is ...

... but like you I have also not persuaded myself to buy a Plaid MS - unless they do RHD ... although, I have one eye on prices, in case someone who took an early Plaid is wanting to get rid of it already. New Plaid Price + LHD no thanks. Plaid, LHD & Depreciation Discount? Yeah, I might do that.

I did notice they seem to be trying to sell a lot of demo models. Unless there’s some refresh of it, feels like maybe they might be exiting the UK market again.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I did notice they seem to be trying to sell a lot of demo models.

I saw that too. It did look like it was "one of each type" though so, mileage / age apart, I wondered if it was just a listing to "indicate stock". There was one at £50k-ish (gone now)

 

[FastLaneJB]

I saw that too. It did look like it was "one of each type" though so, mileage / age apart, I wondered if it was just a listing to "indicate stock". There was one at £50k-ish (gone now)

Ah didn’t see a £50k one. Just seemed like quite a few being listed to sell but you could be right. I’m guessing not all Tesla locations had the Model S / X in LHD so just felt like they might be trying to dump all their LHD demos. While not sure I’d get one, I’d still rather they leave LHD as an option than remove it completely.

Eventually with steer by wire we might get a RHD one but with sales so low on those models globally, not sure it’s worth the R&D effort for Tesla anymore.

 

[Drew57]

Infact you can see from the rather large drop in EV sales in the UK to private buyers in the last year that people are actually moving away from EV, not towards it. At least when they don’t get massive tax breaks from having a EV. This I don’t think will help move the needle in the way Tesla wants.

It's hard to disagree with many of the reasons highlighted here....

The Government have removed most of the incentives for private buyers and there are too many inefficient EV adaptations of ICE cars which disappoint first time buyers (but Tesla does get a positive mention although lengthy delays in sourcing parts for repairs impacts on spiralling insurance costs).

 

[HenryT]

And indicator - brake light - rear light combos, where some of it goes out, when other parts are in use, is just asking for a ram up the bum if you ask me ...

That very point is causing much consternation in the motorcycle world just now. BMW have launched their new 'flagship' R1300GS without a rear light, instead a radar block/receiver takes its place. All the rear light functions are carried out by the led indicators, leaving the back end looking quite odd.

 

[FastLaneJB]

It's hard to disagree with many of the reasons highlighted here....

The Government have removed most of the incentives for private buyers and there are too many inefficient EV adaptations of ICE cars which disappoint first time buyers (but Tesla does get a positive mention although lengthy delays in sourcing parts for repairs impacts on spiralling insurance costs).

Yes I saw that video. He seemed very much for a PHEV a few months before but has gone back to a diesel despite having a massive amount of solar.

Basically I think EV buyers fall into 3 categories:

1. Early adopters, tech lovers, keen climate change folks. These will always put up with the issues and are prepared to work around them.

2. Tax break buyers. Only buying either on company or via salary sacrifice because it’s just cheaper than an ICE. Will probably put up with some issues as long as they are saving money, probably many will vanish if the financials swing the other way.

3. Mid and higher wealth private buyers, mostly short range journeys with a driveway and cheap tariff / solar. Don’t get the tax breaks but still works out nicely from a financial point of view or close enough they are fine for convenience of home charging.

Pretty much all other car buyers have various issues against EV’s and currently just don’t want one. Clearly from the drop in sales it’s likely some have tried an EV and are switching back to ICE.

 

[Bouba]

When we had one EU car and on Japanese we got that every time we switched cars (back when Japanese cars had opposite-side-stalks)

But I can't remember the last time I had that problem, so I suspect that stalks have been same-same for me, for all the brands that I have owned in a long time. Sometimes horn on the wheel (either as centre press, or as a button), sometimes button on end of stalk.

Personally I would prefer that these were standardised, along with limiting choice for "expression" with rear lights. In an emergency am I going to react as quickly if the car in front has some weird arrangement for its lights?

I don't like the Audi rear indicators that have a moving pattern - which VAG touted as being a significant improvement in safety. In normal road operation they attract most of my concentration - taking it away from other things that might need it.

And indicator - brake light - rear light combos, where some of it goes out, when other parts are in use, is just asking for a ram up the bum if you ask me ...

You are right about driving on the continent. I never thought much about it when I was young, just did it. Then we had an American client over and I asked them why they hadn't hired a car.

"Not confident to drive wrong-side-of-road"

"Really?"

"Yup, not sure in an emergency I would do the right thing"

I'd never thought of that, until then.

I take more care on the continent now and I brief passengers to "immediately go mental" if I do something daft, rather than Be-British / assume I am going to sort it out - like setting off on the wrong side of the road (done that more than once),

Only once did I get on the wrong side of the road....it was in the Swiss Alps...changing motorways, I guess because of space constraints, the slip road joined the motorway on the wrong side...any Swiss driver would quickly cross over...but I didn’t...it had confused my brain and if it wasn’t for my passengers, I would still be there

 

[spdpsba]

if it wasn’t for my passengers, I would still be there

You mean dead and buried?

 

[Bouba]

You mean dead and buried?

Or perhaps a stain....

 

[browellm]

It's hard to disagree with many of the reasons highlighted here....

The Government have removed most of the incentives for private buyers and there are too many inefficient EV adaptations of ICE cars which disappoint first time buyers (but Tesla does get a positive mention although lengthy delays in sourcing parts for repairs impacts on spiralling insurance costs).

I thought a lot of it was hyperbolic rant. I found him bemoaning the poor electric range of the gigantic SUVs he favours particularly galling, while creaming himself in front of a massive diesel RR Sport with a published mpg of 43 that will struggle to hit 30 in mixed driving.

The battery degradation section was hilariously focused on the PP3-sized token effort in another massive SUV he was moaning about.

Yes Harry, we get that you tow massive trailers with 4x4s. I think that makes you something of an outlier amongst the general driving public. Horses for courses.

 

[FastLaneJB]

I thought a lot of it was hyperbolic rant. I found him bemoaning the poor electric range of the gigantic SUVs he favours particularly galling, while creaming himself in front of a massive diesel RR Sport with a published mpg of 43 that will struggle to hit 30 in mixed driving.

The battery degradation section was hilariously focused on the PP3-sized token effort in another massive SUV he was moaning about.

Yes Harry, we get that you tow massive trailers with 4x4s. I think that makes you something of an outlier amongst the general driving public. Horses for courses.

I've had a Land Rover with the D300, he'll get 35mpg+ just fine in mixed driving. You can see he's getting 44mpg on a run. It's an exceptionally good diesel and much better than the old Ford engines they used to use.

SUV's are popular regardless of if you agree with them or not. EV SUV's suffer on efficiency just like an ICE does Vs a saloon.