we need to be careful, because some people say "quality" to include reliability. Whereas panel gaps and such are really cosmetic quality issues, which IMO just aren't very significant to my overall assessment of the car.
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So sick of the negativity
- Thread starter M falcon
- Start date
we need to be careful, because some people say "quality" to include reliability. Whereas panel gaps and such are really cosmetic quality issues, which IMO just aren't very significant to my overall assessment of the car.
My Model S 85 with my first Tesla. I sold it after 18 months and really never took it back to the dealer for any adjustments except for annual service and tires.
A few weeks before I sold it, I took it in for a quick check. The service center in for me that they found some waster in the tail lights and the rear chrome backup lights and they automatically replaced it without me even asking about it. I reported a small whirring sound when proceeding from 0 to 30 and the service department provided Fremont California with an audio clip of it. They asked if I would be willing to keep the fossil burning piece of garbage Cadillac SUV I had for a couple extra days and they replaced the entire motor at a cost of about 15K to them
A few weeks before I sold it, I took it in for a quick check. The service center in for me that they found some waster in the tail lights and the rear chrome backup lights and they automatically replaced it without me even asking about it. I reported a small whirring sound when proceeding from 0 to 30 and the service department provided Fremont California with an audio clip of it. They asked if I would be willing to keep the fossil burning piece of garbage Cadillac SUV I had for a couple extra days and they replaced the entire motor at a cost of about 15K to them
Sorry I inadvertently hit the post button without editing
Subsequently the new owner of by Model S got a new motor and a like new car. My model x arrived to be totally without fault and after 40,000 miles and 18 months I still have no complaints, except for a Continental Tire that blew out unexpectedly. That one's on Continental. In about a week or so I will receive my Model 3 and I look forward to to the continued Joy of driving fossil-fuel-free.
Hope the naysayers out there are enjoying the $0.20 a gallon raise and fossil fuel prices of last week. I've already put my order for a second model 3.
Sometimes you just have to report the facts.
Subsequently the new owner of by Model S got a new motor and a like new car. My model x arrived to be totally without fault and after 40,000 miles and 18 months I still have no complaints, except for a Continental Tire that blew out unexpectedly. That one's on Continental. In about a week or so I will receive my Model 3 and I look forward to to the continued Joy of driving fossil-fuel-free.
Hope the naysayers out there are enjoying the $0.20 a gallon raise and fossil fuel prices of last week. I've already put my order for a second model 3.
Sometimes you just have to report the facts.
Attachments
Another angle that I think hasn't yet been mentioned is the confusion between the product and the company.
The products should be judged for what they are, with their strengths and shortcomings.
The appraisal of the products can and should be done in isolation of the appraisal of the company, its leader(s), the way it communicates, performs, behaves, delivers or doesn't, what its business prospects are.
Is the perceived "negativity" directed mostly at the products, or at the company ?
Tesla benefits from buzz, but also pays the price of buzz through disproportionate media scrutiny. That scrutiny sheds light on management and communication shortcomings that, in my opinion, border on hubris.
There have been several other examples on car forums where an underdog or challenger comes up with an interesting product with bleak commercial prospects, and its promoters conflate the latter with unfair criticism of the former.
The products should be judged for what they are, with their strengths and shortcomings.
The appraisal of the products can and should be done in isolation of the appraisal of the company, its leader(s), the way it communicates, performs, behaves, delivers or doesn't, what its business prospects are.
Is the perceived "negativity" directed mostly at the products, or at the company ?
Tesla benefits from buzz, but also pays the price of buzz through disproportionate media scrutiny. That scrutiny sheds light on management and communication shortcomings that, in my opinion, border on hubris.
There have been several other examples on car forums where an underdog or challenger comes up with an interesting product with bleak commercial prospects, and its promoters conflate the latter with unfair criticism of the former.
Is that really a useful comment ?
Were the 18650 cells in your Model S85D made in and shipped from Japan using renewable energy ?
Are the "leeches" in question supposed to have the disposable income to fork out 59K for a long range Model 3 with premium package ?
It shouldn't always be a cultural war.
Were the 18650 cells in your Model S85D made in and shipped from Japan using renewable energy ?
Are the "leeches" in question supposed to have the disposable income to fork out 59K for a long range Model 3 with premium package ?
It shouldn't always be a cultural war.
Here in New England, electricity is primarily generated from natural gas, so technically some of us driving EVs using NG electricity are also leeching off the Marcellus Formation.
people who sling mud like that generally aren't informed, and likely are not open to being informed. They believe what they want to believe. I would hope we EV adopters don't stoop to their level.
It's been proven that the environmental impact of EV manufacture is well-offset by the efficiency of that car's lifetime. The long tailpipe is a myth. The problem is EV marketing often push catchphrases like "emissions free." Clearly there is still environmental impact. It's not zero. It's just less than an ICE. People who claim that EVs cause more environmental damage than ICE are not informed.
And things are only getting better for EVs. Electricity is getting cleaner by the day. Battery longevity is also improving. Tesla is already posting awesome longevity numbers. Recycling techniques are improving. Battery capacity will improve. EVs are inevitable. People who cannot see that either have no ounce of vision, or they are blinded by their current belief system. Change is hard.
people who sling mud like that generally aren't informed, and likely are not open to being informed. They believe what they want to believe. I would hope we EV adopters don't stoop to their level.
It's been proven that the environmental impact of EV manufacture is well-offset by the efficiency of that car's lifetime. The long tailpipe is a myth. The problem is EV marketing often push catchphrases like "emissions free." Clearly there is still environmental impact. It's not zero. It's just less than an ICE. People who claim that EVs cause more environmental damage than ICE are not informed.
And things are only getting better for EVs. Electricity is getting cleaner by the day. Battery longevity is also improving. Tesla is already posting awesome longevity numbers. Recycling techniques are improving. Battery capacity will improve. EVs are inevitable. People who cannot see that either have no ounce of vision, or they are blinded by their current belief system. Change is hard.
lynnpt2001
Cookie Monster MX & M3
I agree, they would earn more respect and trust if they would simply state facts. The media thrives on false promises and companies that don't learn from mistakes. It's sad that they make such an awesome product that all other car companies can only dream of, but the constant false hopes to people, the same people who buy their products eventually will take it's toll and it will affect the future and success of Tesla in the long run. I hope they make it as we ordered a MX a few weeks ago and like many are very excited. BTW drove into the lot at Owings Mills MD today, 5 Model 3's ready for delivery...it was an enjoyable site.
essmd
Phantom X
Nowhere is it written that one can be satisfied with some of something, yet be disappointed with other issues
I love driving my Model X.. the torque, the suspension, the display and Autopilot all part of driving bliss....
Then the vibration felt through the drivetrain on acceleration that rattles the doors, the ambient air heard over 50 MPH, the 7 cameras I paid for that do NOTHING, the unenhances Enhances Autopilot functions worse than the original, still can read a speed limit sign. Oh, then there is the mindless robots at the Service Centers who automatically designate every customer complaint as "operating within specified and expected parameters, who react to the death of a Michelins tire after 5k miles with "That's the price of owning a performance vehicle", as if my MX 90D is akin to a Testarosa.
Elon and Tesla are of nothing else, the King or False Hope's and Dreams, and Experts in breaking promises.
If you have repeated unresolved issues within the first 12 months, you should seriously consider filing a Lemon Law claim in your state, cause folks, the future of Tesla dont look so good.
Now if you're a hopeless optimist happily to end up with a Tesla Museum of no-go vintage vehicles, start your collection soon.
I love driving my Model X.. the torque, the suspension, the display and Autopilot all part of driving bliss....
Then the vibration felt through the drivetrain on acceleration that rattles the doors, the ambient air heard over 50 MPH, the 7 cameras I paid for that do NOTHING, the unenhances Enhances Autopilot functions worse than the original, still can read a speed limit sign. Oh, then there is the mindless robots at the Service Centers who automatically designate every customer complaint as "operating within specified and expected parameters, who react to the death of a Michelins tire after 5k miles with "That's the price of owning a performance vehicle", as if my MX 90D is akin to a Testarosa.
Elon and Tesla are of nothing else, the King or False Hope's and Dreams, and Experts in breaking promises.
If you have repeated unresolved issues within the first 12 months, you should seriously consider filing a Lemon Law claim in your state, cause folks, the future of Tesla dont look so good.
Now if you're a hopeless optimist happily to end up with a Tesla Museum of no-go vintage vehicles, start your collection soon.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
As long as I haven't gotten my Model 3, I can't complain.
Wait a sec, I can complain about the endless wait time. Alas, something to complain about after all.
Wait a sec, I can complain about the endless wait time. Alas, something to complain about after all.
It is ironic to me that someone would write a complaint that their car is riddled with quality issues without detecting that their complaint is riddled with significant typos. Sir or madam, I hope you are not making cars
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Seriously though, I can understand some of the negativity.
I don't care too much about panel gaps or other optical defects, as those can a) be corrected and b) will probably be mostly ironed out by the time I get to see my Model 3 anyway.
What I do agree on is that some design as well as UI decisions are making the daily usage more impractical than necessary.
For example the lack of a keyfob. I was always looking forward to using the frunk to store groceries when going shopping. On a Model S or X I can do that. Approach the car, open the frunk with a click on the fob in my pocket, put in my stuff, get in the car and drive away.
With the Model 3, lacking a fob, such a use case is far more complicated. You have to open the car, get in, open the frunk from the screen, get out again, put in your stuff, get back in again, drive away. Much more of a hassle.
Of course if you happen to have your phone with you, you could use the app, but it would be similar to using the screen. You have to juggle your groceries and your phone, unlock the phone screen, start the app, find the button for opening the frunk, and so on. Never understood why Tesla went with the fob-less approach other than for being different. Can't imagine any legacy automaker will do that with their upcoming BEV offerings.
Or take the center screen. Sure, a streamlined interior looks nice, but having to fiddle through several screen menus while driving for simple functions like wiper settings, TACC settings, or even just opening the glove box while being parked somewhere - over-reducing the amount of physical buttons can be more of a hindrance than a benefit. No one says the interior must be cluttered with buttons, but at least in its current iteration, the UI leaves a lot to be desired. Perhaps a future software update can fix some of these issues.
As for other criticisms about Tesla, some are quite valid too. Constant over-promise, under-deliver, over-optimism when communicating goals, communication problems (like telling customers Tesla will get back to them and then never calling again).
All in all, Tesla obviously seem to be trying their best, and I for one am still prepared to cut them some slack for being the new kid on the block. But with every passing year, I would expect them to improve, and in some areas they still leave a lot to be desired. I just hope, sincerely hope in fact, that they can get their act together before 2019/2020, when the competition will bring out their long range affordable BEVs in full force. Never underestimate legacy automakers and their patience. Companies like VW have often been late in the game in some fields and then taken the lead.
I don't care too much about panel gaps or other optical defects, as those can a) be corrected and b) will probably be mostly ironed out by the time I get to see my Model 3 anyway.
What I do agree on is that some design as well as UI decisions are making the daily usage more impractical than necessary.
For example the lack of a keyfob. I was always looking forward to using the frunk to store groceries when going shopping. On a Model S or X I can do that. Approach the car, open the frunk with a click on the fob in my pocket, put in my stuff, get in the car and drive away.
With the Model 3, lacking a fob, such a use case is far more complicated. You have to open the car, get in, open the frunk from the screen, get out again, put in your stuff, get back in again, drive away. Much more of a hassle.
Of course if you happen to have your phone with you, you could use the app, but it would be similar to using the screen. You have to juggle your groceries and your phone, unlock the phone screen, start the app, find the button for opening the frunk, and so on. Never understood why Tesla went with the fob-less approach other than for being different. Can't imagine any legacy automaker will do that with their upcoming BEV offerings.
Or take the center screen. Sure, a streamlined interior looks nice, but having to fiddle through several screen menus while driving for simple functions like wiper settings, TACC settings, or even just opening the glove box while being parked somewhere - over-reducing the amount of physical buttons can be more of a hindrance than a benefit. No one says the interior must be cluttered with buttons, but at least in its current iteration, the UI leaves a lot to be desired. Perhaps a future software update can fix some of these issues.
As for other criticisms about Tesla, some are quite valid too. Constant over-promise, under-deliver, over-optimism when communicating goals, communication problems (like telling customers Tesla will get back to them and then never calling again).
All in all, Tesla obviously seem to be trying their best, and I for one am still prepared to cut them some slack for being the new kid on the block. But with every passing year, I would expect them to improve, and in some areas they still leave a lot to be desired. I just hope, sincerely hope in fact, that they can get their act together before 2019/2020, when the competition will bring out their long range affordable BEVs in full force. Never underestimate legacy automakers and their patience. Companies like VW have often been late in the game in some fields and then taken the lead.
tropical1
Member
Very happy model 3 and Model X owner. Both my Model 3 and Model X build quality were very good but not "perfect". However, these cars are so far advanced compared to anything else on the market that the only things people can focus on are minor flaws. Seriously, if you invest now in an ICE car or a car without autopilot hardware its like buying a flip phone compared to an iPhone X. Honestly, would people really prefer to have a perfectly built toyota camry that still burns gas, has no update features or autopilot and is behind in every other aspect that matters or a Model 3 that gets all of the important stuff right and has a panel that is millimeter off? I know which I would choose. But hey, if you are so inclined go buy a smoking dinosaur.
Honestly, the complaints about the screen in the 3 is a nothing burger. Most people that complain haven't owned one or are a reviewer that got to spend a couple hours in the car. All the features you need are easy to access, the wipers are automatic, and the new update puts the speed control on the scroll wheel. IMHO way better than having 10,000 buttons cluttering the cabin of the car that can never change and break. Once you drive it daily you will quickly get used to it.
Honestly, the complaints about the screen in the 3 is a nothing burger. Most people that complain haven't owned one or are a reviewer that got to spend a couple hours in the car. All the features you need are easy to access, the wipers are automatic, and the new update puts the speed control on the scroll wheel. IMHO way better than having 10,000 buttons cluttering the cabin of the car that can never change and break. Once you drive it daily you will quickly get used to it.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
And the automatic wipers work in such a way that you don't have to adjust them?
That's not meant as a quip but an honest question. I ask because I have never experienced a car with automatic wipers that worked in such a way that I didn't have to frequently adjust the speed/intensity.
My experience so far is that the auto wipers work great. If you need a swipe in light or intermittent rain the button on the end of the stalk can easily take care of it. People complaining about the wipers are looking for things to complain about imo. I haven’t had to make any adjusts when set to Auto.
My wife at first was like, “oh that looks intimidating.” then she drove the car in the rain and saw how easy it was..as in, I don’t really need to do anything.
Not trying to give you a hard time here, but your worries about the center screen are completely unfounded. Bear with me as I explain with detail why. I'll go thru the examples you mentioned:
having to fiddle through several screen menus while driving for simple functions like wiper settings
You don't have to fiddle through any menus. Say you're getting into your car for the first time in the day, and it's been outside in the rain. If you've had the wiper setting on 'auto', the wipers are going to kick on as soon as you start the car. If you have the wipers set to 'off' from your last drive, you have a physical button on the left stalk that gives you a single wipe. And in pressing that button, the UI automatically presents you with the wiper interval setting screen, where a single tap allows you to set your interval (or auto). And for those days where the rain is misty and none of the intervals are appropriate, I just press the manual button on the stalk whenever I need. There is no hardship at all using wipers. No dangerous eyes-off-the-road distractions fiddling with the screen.
TACC settings,
This already got addressed 2 weeks ago with a firmware update. The right scroll wheel on the steering wheel can now control both speed and follow distance. Agreed that before that, follow distance was unnecessarily buried in the UI. Speed adjust was not so bad, but not ideal either, because the buttons were small.
or even just opening the glove box while being parked somewhere
Glovebox is a two-tap operation on the screen. I've done it from both driver and passenger side while parked. Not sure what the concern is here. Is it that it takes half a second longer to tap the screen 2x than to lean over and pull a mechanical lever? How often does one need to access the glove box? There must be some use case that I don't know about. I use my glovebox maybe 3x a year. 2x to put my insurance cards in, and once to get my registration out for an inspection sticker. If you're someone who locks the glovebox with a key, I guarantee you it will take longer to unlock it with your key than the 2 taps of the screen.
And in daily driving, I rarely need to interact with the center screen. I glance over to check info here and there, but I'm not touching it much at all.
Another voice from the choir: center screen not a problem. Controls all very intuitive and both wife and I picked up in no time.
I’ll also add for @AustinPowers: it is an unintended good thing that the key issue discourages frequent frunk use. The hood is delicate, I presume for weight reasons. You really don’t want to be using frequently. Same with S. There’s plenty of other storage. Use the frunk for infrequent access items. It is, after all, “bonus” space.
I’ll also add for @AustinPowers: it is an unintended good thing that the key issue discourages frequent frunk use. The hood is delicate, I presume for weight reasons. You really don’t want to be using frequently. Same with S. There’s plenty of other storage. Use the frunk for infrequent access items. It is, after all, “bonus” space.
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I think Dale Carnegie said that “Nobody kicks a dead dog”. Tesla is changing the world, and a lot of people feel threatened. I love my Model S and would never go back to an ICE. A little boy once asked an old fisherman why he did not cover his bait bucket to keep the bait from crawling out. The old man said "not to fear, the ones that crawl ahead will be pulled back down by the others".
I have been investing in Tesla stock since it's IPO (in and out 9 times now). I invested because I believe Musk's vision would make Tesla an industry disrupter...and time has shown that to be the case. Since its IPO, there have been many naysayers, Forbes, MarketWatch, WSJ, etc. and a lot of shorts...those shorts (of which I am not one of) have made me a LOT of money! Every time the stock gets hammered, I've doubled down on the stock and have NEVER been disappointed; one of the main reasons our investment portfolio has multiplied 8 fold in 4 years. I do not consider myself a sycophant. Do I root for the company? Absolutely, as I believe in their vision. Do I like their cars? So far, a resounding YES...after assuming someone else's MS P90D, I can say this without hesitation. Does the company need to do better? Absolutely if they want to get bigger and better. My 2 cents...and I have a big smile in my face everytime I am driving my Tesla in stop-go traffic on the freeway
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Thanks for the info. That is indeed reassuring. And you might recall that I wrote "Perhaps a future software update can fix some of these issues."
Glad to see that some issues have already been adressed. That is one thing I absolutely love about Tesla. No other way to put it.
About the glovebox though, I open it every day, on some days several times. For example, among other things, my "Parkscheibe" ("parking disc", don't know if there is such a thing in the US) is in there which I need every time I park somewhere where its use is mandatory. It's very handy because it means free parking after all.
