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So, why does Tesla have such a hard time painting cars?
- Thread starter StellarRat
- Start date
Lol - I don’t make enterprise resource planning decisions based on California’s population. 30 mil, 40 mil, 50 mil, 5th in gdp, 6th in gdp has no micro bearing on Tesla’s paint woes.
My point is California is not business friendly for automobile manufacturing hence no one else does it. Make sense? I’ll repeat again, no other company makes cars in California on a significant scale.
While I don’t work in automotive, I know emperically my thesis is probably accurate based on firms acting in a rational manner.
I’m waiting for someone who knows Tesla painting authoritatively to confirm or deny my thesis. Plenty of other links posted earlier in the thread support my assertions.
If proven California’s business climate has no relevance to Tesla’s shoddy paint quality, I am happy to admit I am wrong and adjust my stance accordingly.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
I don't remember which colors, but yes that is what I've read in the past. Something about certain colors being almost impossible to use in California (explains why Tesla dropped some past colors?). A quick google search hasn't found my vaguely remembered source so I can't swear to accuracy of that statement.
omgwtfbyobbq
Active Member
That sounds like an urban legend. There are VOC limits for coatings and fees for coatings that emit more than 5g/L, but even that only applies to parts of California where pollution has been and is a problem and an Air Quality Management District was set up. There are plenty of places in the state that don't have these restrictions.
http://www.aqmd.gov/docs/default-source/planning/architectural-coatings/tableofstandards.pdf
Architectural Coatings
Edit - Here are the specifics for the Fremont plant.
http://www.baaqmd.gov/~/media/files...a1438_08_2015_mr_finalpermit_02-pdf.pdf?la=en
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First, it’s spelled “empirically.”
Second, only 12 U.S. states assemble automobiles. They happen to be located in areas where the cost of living is very low: Alabama, Mississippi, Indiana, Texas, Ohio, Michigan, Tennessee et al. In these states, housing costs are very low as are wages. Many of these states lack the inherent attraction that drives up housing prices (e.g. good weather). This is why places like Hawai’i and California are also expensive - they are inherently desirable places to live. It has very little to do with tax policy or environmental regulation. As others have said regarding paint, Germany and other EU countries have similarly strict enviro regs.
EDIT: postscript: there are actuallly TWO automakers in California. Tesla and Karma Automotive in Moreno Valley
.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Anytime you are painting up to a thousand cars a week, things are going to happen.
The upset people will complain much LOUDER than the happy people. Makes it seem worse than it is (except to those who have the issue)
The upset people will complain much LOUDER than the happy people. Makes it seem worse than it is (except to those who have the issue)
Want some pictures of what you can do in Texas with one California rent’s worth of money? It’s obscene!
Ex Californian here, same as half of this town.
Also
I believe it’s NULLTXWhat’s the stock ticker for koolaid, I need to buy me some!
Duh. Did you know in most of the US, you can buy a new house for $70-150/sf (land included)? You can buy a 3000sf in suburban Houston for $250K. Ditto in metro Atlanta and Detroit. In California, you can’t even build a house at trade cost for that price. In LA/OC, average new home build costs are around $275/sf - land sold separately.Want some pictures of what you can do in Texas with one California rent’s worth of money? It’s obscene!
Ex Californian here, same as half of this town.
If you fancy yourself a s a conservative, then grade school economics and a simple logic chain shows that California is more desirable/attractive place to live.
Consider:
1. Given: price is the balancing mechanism of supply and demand (Econ 101)
2. That is, the higher the price, the more demand there is for a given product (eg housing) at each point along the supply curve.
3. Demand is driven by desire/want.
4. An object of desire is desirable.
And consider:
5. California has high housing prices.
6. Therefore, since prices are high, there must be high demand for housing in California at each point along the supply curve.
7. Ergo, it must follow than since California housing is in high demand and things in demand are desirable (4).), California housing is desirable.
QED.
That's exactly not the definition of a zero sum game. I'm starting to think you're using phrases you don't understand the meaning of. To be fair, I wouldn't expect an economist in california that hates california to bother with facts anyway.
You're saying that as if it's a bad thing.
Going to need some evidence.
I forgot about the robot pee breaks!
I don't argue that. I do argue that the severity isn't as bad when compared to other companies.
As evidence for my argument that people are complaining about things they don't understand, 4 mils is not at all 4mm. In fact, it's just over a tenth of a millimeter. This is what I'm saying. Also, 4mm (less than half a centimeter) is not a huge variance in manufacturing of large mass production assemblies like these. These aren't high tolerance devices, they're body panels.
Other manufacturers moved for a lot of reasons that had nothing at all to do with paint. Like. At all. They closed because of the high market pay compared to other cheaper states, the high property cost compared to other cheaper states, and for tax breaks for bringing jobs into depressed economies.
If you think CA paint laws existed in the 1950s through the 80s, you're beyond confused. The EPA didn't even exist until the 70s when Nixon created it. And just FYI, several countries (not least of which Canada where most US vehicles are manufactured) also effectively require water-thinned paints. And so do several other states. It turns out, using flammable, cancer-causing chemicals that destroy the ozone layer and the environment around the plant isn't super popular with employees or local residents.
Soft like German automaker paint? I know Maybach and Porsche are known for their soft paint.
Actually, I do know a Porsche owner that got their car re-sprayed because Porsche does a shitty job, but not because of the paint's thinner.BINGO! Someone that bothered to look up an easily discoverable fact! Well done. I like your style.
Well now I know for sure you're using terms you don't know the meaning of. Also, you don't seem to understand "military tech" has no place in this conversation, and it's usually used as a derogatory term in manufacturing because it's usually lowest bidder garbage. Also, Tesla doesn't do space stuff, SpaceX does. And SpaceX isn't painting cars for Tesla.
Whiiiiiich is what I said back on Page 1.
You keep using phrases in inappropriate ways. Can you explain to us what scaling a painting section up would mean, and what scaling it out would mean? Compare and contrast for extra credit.
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If I can produce an Economics degree not from Trump University (lol), you can donate $1000-$10,000-$100,000 to Trump's re-election campaign? Pick any number, I can cover it.
You can pick a charity of your choice if I can't.
I'll give you one more piece of info to help you make your choice. I never took high school economics. The reason is because I left high school after my freshman year.
I either graduated early or dropped out.
Make your bet accordingly if you got the balls for it.
What's $1,000 to shut me up? I'd go for at least that.
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I believe it’s “you’ve.”If I can produce an Economics degree not from Trump University (lol), you can donate $1000-$10,000-$100,000 to Trump's re-election campaign? Pick any number, I can cover it.
You can pick a charity of your choice if I can't.
I'll give you one more piece of info to help you make your choice. I never took high school economics. The reason is because I left high school after my freshman year.
I either graduated early or dropped out.
Make your bet accordingly if you got the balls for it.
What's $1,000 to shut me up? I'd go for at least that.
Counterparty risk.
P.S. Some free advice from Proverbs/Lincoln/Twain: it’s better to be thought a fool than to speak (or TMC post) and remove all doubt.
No risk at all. I can’t be a supposed ERP economist if I cannot think through how to complete basic transactions and ensure risk mitigation for both parties.
Someone will escrow this for entertainment. I’ll make my deposit first. Shall we?
Once your deposit is secured I’ll even let you request the records yourself.
The only risk you face is asymmetric information. You’ve made an assertion which you have no idea is true or not. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for me, I DO happen to know.
I can assure you that I’m not an English teacher, and I'm sure we can mutually agree. However, we’re not betting on that.
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No risk at all. I can’t be a supposed ERP economist if I cannot think through how to complete basic transactions and ensure risk mitigation for both parties.
Someone will escrow this for entertainment. I’ll make my deposit first. Shall we?
Once your deposit is secured I’ll even let you request the records yourself.
The only risk you face is asymmetric information. You’ve made an assertion which you have no idea is true or not. Unfortunately for you and fortunately for me, I DO happen to know.
I can assure you that I’m not an English teacher, and I'm sure we can mutually agree. However, we’re not betting on that.
I withdraw as taunting and baiting for cash is not good natured.
Proving something that happened two decades while easy is pointless.
Defending internet honor is immature, and unproductive.
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Nonetheless, that is the whole point of the internet! (plenty of XKCDs to prove that)
What, are we going to start ignoring each other now, quit bantering and, $DEITY forbid, go back to work and be productive?
Why would anyone want to do such a thing?
I just prefer to banter with people that are enjoyable to banter with. People that credential wave, or just make things up and try to use their credentials to pass them off as facts are boring and offer nothing of value to the conversation.
Why did my thread about painting cars degenerate into an argument about manufacturing in California? Can any of you tell me how the State affects the quality of a paint job??? If so, I might think it was a worthwhile argument. Otherwise I think this thread is no longer worth pursuing for me anyway.
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