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I am curious if you really need to pay tax in US.

When opening IB and one other international shares account, I filled in W-8BEN form. That is Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for US Tax withholding. The form establishes that one is a non-resident alien or foreign corporation, to avoid or reduce tax withholding from US source income.

My understanding is that I will not be paying tax to US on my US capital gains. Perhaps the arrangement may be different in Norway. W-8BEN is US tax form, so it makes sense that such form is applicable to all US aliens, including Norway aliens.

No, Wenche is in Norway just like me. She will not pay any taxes in the US. She will not be asked to. I sold a lot of options with nice profits in 2013 in a US account and was never contacted by US Tax authorities. I believe the broker has me registered as a foreign citizen. I reported my gains to the Norwegian tax authorities and was taxed accordingly here at home.
 
No, Wenche is in Norway just like me. She will not pay any taxes in the US. She will not be asked to. I sold a lot of options with nice profits in 2013 in a US account and was never contacted by US Tax authorities. I believe the broker has me registered as a foreign citizen. I reported my gains to the Norwegian tax authorities and was taxed accordingly here at home.

Whew! I was afraid I had done it all wrong! I also only reported in Norway!
 
Can you explain this spread strategy more? I thought once you sell & make a gain, you owe tax. How does a spread work to lower & delay the tax burden?
Well my thought was that instead of selling your LEAPS to book short term gain, if you need money or book some profit, you can sell higher strike calls with same expiration to get some money. Since you have not booked any profit, you don't pay taxes. This conversation belongs to advance options thread and do read it to understand more about options before making a move.
 
Well my thought was that instead of selling your LEAPS to book short term gain, if you need money or book some profit, you can sell higher strike calls with same expiration to get some money. Since you have not booked any profit, you don't pay taxes. This conversation belongs to advance options thread and do read it to understand more about options before making a move.

Feel free to take this to the advanced options trading thread, but what pGo says is only half true:

If you have LEAPS and want to take profits without paying gains, then yes you can sell higher strike calls against those LEAPS to collect cash and create a spread, but:

1. If you sell a deep ITM call against those LEAPS then you will be taxed on those gains anyway, since IRS considers selling deep ITM covered calls (I think it applies against underlying stock position as well, but can't remember for sure). Deep ITM is considered anything more than 1 strike ITM, but nothing is set in stone and is open to interpretation by the IRS.

E.g. you have J16 $200 LEAPS and want to sell a covered call, you can do so and not pay taxes as long as it isn't Deep ITM. TSLA is at $255.36 right now, so if you sell the $255 or above then you don't pay taxes. $250 might be okay, but is open to interpretation. $245 might not be okay and you will be hit with a tax bill.

2. If you sell a call against your LEAPS then you may lose LTCG (long term capital gains) benefit of LEAPS if short call is held for less than 12 months.

E.g. If you have J16 $200 LEAPS and sell a J16 $260 LEAPS against it, then you are okay. No tax paid today, since it isn't deep ITM. If you hold this delayed bull call spread for more than 12 months, then you can cash out and pay LTCG on entire spread.

But if you Had that $200 LEAPS for 6 months now, and you sell a J16 $260 against it today, then the clock resets and you need to hold another 12 months to get LTCG treatment. So if you sell 8 months later, you are forgoing LTCG even though you held the long LEAPS 14 months, and will have to pay STCG tax instead on gain.

Alternatively, if you have J15 LEAPS that you held for 14 months now; you can sell them today and claim LTCG. But if you sell a $260 J15 against it today to create a delayed construct bull call spread, then your holding period resets and you are screwed. You will then incur STCG on all of this.

In the end the tax code is extremely complex. I have done a lot of research on this topic and this is how I understand it. I may have misinterpreted IRS language, which is extremely easy to do, so please consult your tax advisor; although I guarantee you that he will not know the correct answer either...

Note: I pasted this post into Advanced options trading strategies thread as well, so we can carry on discussion there if necessary.
 
I hereby institute the Rhino prize for the most inventive FUD about Tesla cars. My first nomination is here:

CNBC video (it starts at sec. 54.)

For those who don't want to click on the video, I transcribed the most relevant part:

CNBC reporter: "Kevin, Kevin, do you drive one of these?"
Kevin: "No, but I'm seriously thinking of getting one, Karl, I was in South Beach recently, walked into their demo room, and a rather interesting experience, I love the car, I've ridden in it once now, it's a beautiful thing, beautiful piece of engineering, but I've never thought of this before: I was sitting there choosing colours off the panels on the wall, and this woman came up to me and said "have you ever thought if it's good for you to sit on the world's largest battery? What's gonna happen to your 'package'?" And I said WHAT?! I'd never thought of that before... and actually it's bugging me now! I don't know about this yet, I'm gonna do some research [laughter in the background], but I've got a lot of stuff sitting above a battery that's just a few inches [away], that's the biggest honking battery in the world! I'm worried about it."

The guy was dead serious.
 
fortunately he was dead ;>
probably doesn't carry a cell phone?
doesn't he realize that the earth is a bigger battery

lovejoy.jpg
 
I hereby institute the Rhino prize for the most inventive FUD about Tesla cars. My first nomination is here:

CNBC video (it starts at sec. 54.)

For those who don't want to click on the video, I transcribed the most relevant part:

CNBC reporter: "Kevin, Kevin, do you drive one of these?"
Kevin: "No, but I'm seriously thinking of getting one, Karl, I was in South Beach recently, walked into their demo room, and a rather interesting experience, I love the car, I've ridden in it once now, it's a beautiful thing, beautiful piece of engineering, but I've never thought of this before: I was sitting there choosing colours off the panels on the wall, and this woman came up to me and said "have you ever thought if it's good for you to sit on the world's largest battery? What's gonna happen to your 'package'?" And I said WHAT?! I'd never thought of that before... and actually it's bugging me now! I don't know about this yet, I'm gonna do some research [laughter in the background], but I've got a lot of stuff sitting above a battery that's just a few inches [away], that's the biggest honking battery in the world! I'm worried about it."

The guy was dead serious.

As a fellow Canadian, that's our very own Kevin O'leary often featured on CBC. Unfortunately he's about as business savvy as Jim Cramer is investment savvy.
 
Zapped

I hesitated writing that... true. it is ground
ok, fine, add some trees and make a battery

am I the only one that gets a spark when I touch ground?

Not the only one. I get unpleasant zaps on a more than daily basis, to the extent that I had to google possible treatment/solutions.

Luckily body learns fast, so now when I approach expected discharge points, there is a special movement that preceeds the touch, to aleviate zap severity.:biggrin:

- - - Updated - - -

No, Wenche is in Norway just like me. She will not pay any taxes in the US. She will not be asked to. I sold a lot of options with nice profits in 2013 in a US account and was never contacted by US Tax authorities. I believe the broker has me registered as a foreign citizen. I reported my gains to the Norwegian tax authorities and was taxed accordingly here at home.

Feel free to take this to the advanced options trading thread, but what pGo says is only half true:

If you have LEAPS and want to take profits without paying gains, then yes you can sell higher strike calls against those LEAPS to collect cash and create a spread, but:

1. If you sell a deep ITM call against those LEAPS then you will be taxed on those gains anyway, since IRS considers selling deep ITM covered calls (I think it applies against underlying stock position as well, but can't remember for sure). Deep ITM is considered anything more than 1 strike ITM, but nothing is set in stone and is open to interpretation by the IRS.

E.g. you have J16 $200 LEAPS and want to sell a covered call, you can do so and not pay taxes as long as it isn't Deep ITM. TSLA is at $255.36 right now, so if you sell the $255 or above then you don't pay taxes. $250 might be okay, but is open to interpretation. $245 might not be okay and you will be hit with a tax bill.

2. If you sell a call against your LEAPS then you may lose LTCG (long term capital gains) benefit of LEAPS if short call is held for less than 12 months.

E.g. If you have J16 $200 LEAPS and sell a J16 $260 LEAPS against it, then you are okay. No tax paid today, since it isn't deep ITM. If you hold this delayed bull call spread for more than 12 months, then you can cash out and pay LTCG on entire spread.

But if you Had that $200 LEAPS for 6 months now, and you sell a J16 $260 against it today, then the clock resets and you need to hold another 12 months to get LTCG treatment. So if you sell 8 months later, you are forgoing LTCG even though you held the long LEAPS 14 months, and will have to pay STCG tax instead on gain.

Alternatively, if you have J15 LEAPS that you held for 14 months now; you can sell them today and claim LTCG. But if you sell a $260 J15 against it today to create a delayed construct bull call spread, then your holding period resets and you are screwed. You will then incur STCG on all of this.

In the end the tax code is extremely complex. I have done a lot of research on this topic and this is how I understand it. I may have misinterpreted IRS language, which is extremely easy to do, so please consult your tax advisor; although I guarantee you that he will not know the correct answer either...

Note: I pasted this post into Advanced options trading strategies thread as well, so we can carry on discussion there if necessary.

Thank you Johan, I got worried that Uncle Sam might want something from me.

Not sure that I fully understand sleepy's post, but thank you sleepy for posting it. I will study it a bit more after some caffeine kicks in.

My understanding of tax liability is that if I sell calls, puts or anything and get paid for that, I need to pay tax on the premium that I got, at my marginal rate.

Underlying shares attract CG liability only when sold, regardless of the covered calls or puts tax liability. I could be wrong, but that is my understanding at the moment.

I might start tax tread as that is one of my favourite fears, or perhaps we could revive some old tax tread, but I appreciate input on this subject.
 
Alternatively, if you have J15 LEAPS that you held for 14 months now; you can sell them today and claim LTCG. But if you sell a $260 J15 against it today to create a delayed construct bull call spread, then your holding period resets and you are screwed. You will then incur STCG on all of this.

.

I think this is not the case. I think once they're long term, selling calls against them can no longer drop them down to short term. It can reset the clock as you describe, but only if held less than twelve months. After twelve months you're in the clear.
 
As a fellow Canadian, that's our very own Kevin O'leary often featured on CBC. Unfortunately he's about as business savvy as Jim Cramer is investment savvy.
Kevin O'Leary is EXTREMELY business savy. He knows the business world inside and out and has made an absolute fortune by doing so.

What he is not, as evidenced here, is tech savy. He has very little scientific knowledge, but normally that's not really an issue for him, because he can pay someone for that. (He also has no morals, and limited understanding of other humans, but that's a different discussion)

I'd happily challenge him on technical issues, but I'd never bet against him in business.
 
I hereby institute the Rhino prize for the most inventive FUD about Tesla cars. My first nomination is here:

CNBC video (it starts at sec. 54.)

For those who don't want to click on the video, I transcribed the most relevant part:

CNBC reporter: "Kevin, Kevin, do you drive one of these?"
Kevin: "No, but I'm seriously thinking of getting one, Karl, I was in South Beach recently, walked into their demo room, and a rather interesting experience, I love the car, I've ridden in it once now, it's a beautiful thing, beautiful piece of engineering, but I've never thought of this before: I was sitting there choosing colours off the panels on the wall, and this woman came up to me and said "have you ever thought if it's good for you to sit on the world's largest battery? What's gonna happen to your 'package'?" And I said WHAT?! I'd never thought of that before... and actually it's bugging me now! I don't know about this yet, I'm gonna do some research [laughter in the background], but I've got a lot of stuff sitting above a battery that's just a few inches [away], that's the biggest honking battery in the world! I'm worried about it."

The guy was dead serious.

My husband did an EMF test in our Model S vs our Lexus ES. He placed the reader on both the floor of the cars (where our feet are) and also on the seat. The levels of EMF in the Model S were actually very low. The EMF levels in the Lexus were much higher.
 
I think this is not the case. I think once they're long term, selling calls against them can no longer drop them down to short term. It can reset the clock as you describe, but only if held less than twelve months. After twelve months you're in the clear.
I thought the same thing...but I leave judgement to sleepyhead on this issue, lol. Either way it proves his point, the tax laws are so complicated that there is no clear rules on a lot of this stuff.
 
Kevin O'Leary is EXTREMELY business savy. He knows the business world inside and out and has made an absolute fortune by doing so.

What he is not, as evidenced here, is tech savy. He has very little scientific knowledge, but normally that's not really an issue for him, because he can pay someone for that. (He also has no morals, and limited understanding of other humans, but that's a different discussion)

I'd happily challenge him on technical issues, but I'd never bet against him in business.

I guess depends on the definition of savvy. In my opinion business savvy means the ability to build a successful business with solid long term. He's very good at talking, relying on his media presence to market himself. Look up O'leary Funds and the read the first few google headlines as an example of a real company he's been involved with.

No disagreement with the fact he's made himself a lot of money, but that does not qualify as business savvy in my mind. Just like how Cramer has done well for himself as an "investment guru".. I wouldn't call him a great investor either.