Software Update 2018.21.9 75bdbc11

[ChrML]

Those of you who says it nags with hands on the wheel. Do you actually have two hands on the wheel while driving? Like they taught in driver's school? Didn't think anyone actually drove with two hands...

I believe that's the problem. Two hands = no torque, unless you deliberately apply torque. Just rest one hand on the side of the wheel and hang it by its weight, and you can AP for hours without a single nag and no effort.

 

[jeffro01]

This is starting to feel a little bit like the famous Apple "youre holding it wrong" fiasco.

In Tesla's case, you're steering wheel is positioned wrong.

Yet somehow, some of us don't get any nags at all... Drove almost 100 miles yesterday on AP and didn't get a single nag (yes I'm running this release)...

When I see people whining about AP nags it's a bit bewildering in that you only get the nag if you're not holding the freaking wheel... Why is it so hard for some to simply do what the car requires? Increased nag frequency is entirely the result of people not holding the wheel as instructed... Like it or not, Tesla is forced to engineer for the most irresponsible among us...

Jeff

 

[Marc_GA]

In Tesla's case, you're steering wheel is positioned wrong.

Yes, funny. It puts more strain on my wrists to have it higher so pretty much any car I drive the wheel is in almost the lowest position and I can't see the top of the binnacle. This is not specific to Tesla, but I don't remember other vendors putting important warnings only on the top edge of the screen.

It feels like it was put on the top of the screen only to hid it a little more. I can't fathom why it was considered a good idea to make a warning less obvious, but that is exactly what was done. It's hard to argue that reducing the area in the UX to less than 50% of the original space won't make it harder to see. Little things like this are either done intentionally or they really don't pay attention to UX design.

 

[MacGreiner]

Maybe it still needs to 'calibrate' - but on my AP1 I have noticed the autosteer component to require way more intervention to keep in lane.

 

[Marc_GA]

Like they taught in driver's school?

I have to disagree. (Don't like actual disagree button).

I learned on a manual transmission. I would keep my second hand on the shifter. Bad habit... potentially. It's been many, many years of practice. No laws require 2 hands as far as I know either.

 

[boonedocks]

All of these posts about the resistance (torque) being reduced to avoid nags in this firmware are completely contrary to my experience. Installed 2018.21.9 last Friday and took a road trip this weekend. I rarely experienced nags with the last few updates and now they are so frequent and require so much more of a "wiggle" of the wheel to accommodate the warning that it almost moves the cars direction. This update for hands on wheel recognition makes A/P (in its own way) as bad as the update from way back that caused Tesla's to slow down on expressways every time A/P saw a car on the side of the road. Just ridiculous. I have never had to literally shake the wheel to accommodate the NAG. Now it has become annoying to use A/P. This update may become to be known as "NAG-GATE" It really is that bad.

I drive a little over 3,000 miles a month so I feel comfortable in saying this is just not placebo affect or the like. It is not the frequency, it is the steering wheel force required to satisfy the nag. An earlier post said "it will allow Tesla to say the driver wasn't holding the wheel or hadn't held the wheel for XX number of times or amount of time in the case of an A/P accident" Indeed that is what my logs would look like even though my hands are on the wheel the entire time.

Tesla you need to fix this.

(My only saving grace may be Elon's latest tweet from June 10th storm where he said: With V9, we will begin to enable full self-driving features.) hmmmmm 3 months NOWAY...6 months late...probably

 

[MacGreiner]

I used to display range before but now I’m more comfortable with the percentage. It is a personal preference for sure but how about being able to display both at the same time? I hope Tesla would include that with v9.0

Displaying % instead of range was the way I solved range anxiety. Not sure why but battery level rather than miles does that for me.

 

[d21mike]

Yes, funny. It puts more strain on my wrists to have it higher so pretty much any car I drive the wheel is in almost the lowest position and I can't see the top of the binnacle. This is not specific to Tesla, but I don't remember other vendors putting important warnings only on the top edge of the screen.

It feels like it was put on the top of the screen only to hid it a little more. I can't fathom why it was considered a good idea to make a warning less obvious, but that is exactly what was done. It's hard to argue that reducing the area in the UX to less than 50% of the original space won't make it harder to see. Little things like this are either done intentionally or they really don't pay attention to UX design.

When I say this I wondered the same thing. Then got in my car and noticed I do see the top easy so should not be an issue for me. I am just hoping that the reason is they will use the other three for other things. Like maybe left right warnings for blind spot detection or something like that.

 

[d21mike]

Only one hand. In the city I drive with 2 hands but whenever I have auto-pilot or highway I'm usually using 1 hand. I keep it at the 8-9 o'clock position or 5ish. It is pretty lightly on the wheel, just resting. I will use 0 hands on long trips for periods of time (resting on door or lap) but this is not the case for around town driving.

I don't think 'jiggle' was the correct word, I would just apply a little pressure to turn the wheel either left/right slightly enough for it to pick me up.

On straight roads I get the warning quite often. On windy roads, not so much.

Have you watched this video which was posted earlier in this thread? Are you saying your car on the same version does not work the same?

 

[jkennebeck]

I am just hoping that the reason is they will use the other three for other things. Like maybe left right warnings for blind spot detection or something like that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but HW1 cars don't have side cameras, so why would we need those spots for blind spot detection? And why would you have to ONLY use it for that?

Code:
NAG - flash all 4 borders
Blind spot detection - flash only 1 side border
Both at once - NAG overrides

or use different colors?

 

[d21mike]

All of these posts about the resistance (torque) being reduced to avoid nags in this firmware are completely contrary to my experience. Installed 2018.21.9 last Friday and took a road trip this weekend. I rarely experienced nags with the last few updates and now they are so frequent and require so much more of a "wiggle" of the wheel to accommodate the warning that it almost moves the cars direction. This update for hands on wheel recognition makes A/P (in its own way) as bad as the update from way back that caused Tesla's to slow down on expressways every time A/P saw a car on the side of the road. Just ridiculous. I have never had to literally shake the wheel to accommodate the NAG. Now it has become annoying to use A/P. This update may become to be known as "NAG-GATE" It really is that bad.

I drive a little over 3,000 miles a month so I feel comfortable in saying this is just not placebo affect or the like. It is not the frequency, it is the steering wheel force required to satisfy the nag. An earlier post said "it will allow Tesla to say the driver wasn't holding the wheel or hadn't held the wheel for XX number of times or amount of time in the case of an A/P accident" Indeed that is what my logs would look like even though my hands are on the wheel the entire time.

Tesla you need to fix this.

(My only saving grace may be Elon's latest tweet from June 10th storm where he said: With V9, we will begin to enable full self-driving features.) hmmmmm 3 months NOWAY...6 months late...probably

Are you saying you car is completely different then what is shown in this VIDEO? If so, maybe have SC check your car. Again, I am still on 2018.16 so I do not have personal experience but very interested since I only use 1 hand and lower part of the wheel (position 5 or 7) and never get the NAG warning.

 

[Marc_GA]

Have you watched this video which was posted earlier in this thread? Are you saying your car on the same version does not work the same?

No, I didn't try not using 0 hands on the steering wheel while holding my phone to take a video while going 40 miles per hour down a public road. I bet this is the secret I'm missing.

I had my hand at 8 o'clock. There is more give on the wheel, but it would still nag me. I then proceeded to pay close attention and it did it multiple times on a relatively short trip (20 minutes left).

 

[d21mike]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but HW1 cars don't have side cameras, so why would we need those spots for blind spot detection? And why would you have to ONLY use it for that?

Code:
NAG - flash all 4 borders
Blind spot detection - flash only 1 side border
Both at once - NAG overrides

or use different colors?

Good Point. As a software developer for > 40 years I always think having OPTIONS to indicate behavior works well. Others feel that too many OPTIONS is confusing.

 

[d21mike]

No, I didn't try not using 0 hands on the steering wheel while holding my phone to take a video while going 40 miles per hour down a public road. I bet this is the secret I'm missing.

I had my hand at 8 o'clock. There is more give on the wheel, but it would still nag me. I then proceeded to pay close attention and it did it multiple times on a relatively short trip (20 minutes left).

WOW.... The guy doing the video was trying to help us all out and your reply completely misses the point. I can see now that there is nothing more that I can add that would be helpful to you.

 

[boonedocks]

Are you saying you car is completely different then what is shown in this VIDEO? If so, maybe have SC check your car. Again, I am still on 2018.16 so I do not have personal experience but very interested since I only use 1 hand and lower part of the wheel (position 5 or 7) and never get the NAG warning.

You will need to wait until you are on the latest release to see if you experience anything different from that video. He also mentioned in the video 3:13 that he was driving AP 1 ONE not 2 / 2.5 so that may have something to do with it as well. It would be interesting if I do indeed have a physical hardware issue VS it being software since I have not had this issue until now.

 

[S100D]

The YouTube guy would definitely be considered a DIC in this case.

Another change that Tesla made was that someone needs to be sitting in the driver's seat. I have been driving and needed to get to my wallet. When I took weight off of the seat to get to my driver's license (seat belt is still connected), the car applies the brakes and if I remember correctly, there is an alarm that goes off.

I have never kept the weight off of the seat, but I assume that the car will come to a complete stop.

 

[Marc_GA]

You will need to wait until you are on the latest release to see if you experience anything different from that video.

For everyone else, I am on: 2018.21.9 75bdbc11. I also have a AP1 (late-2014) car which may be different, the video was on an AP2.5 system.

I played around with tapping the wheel and it wasn't that sensitive. I had to actually put a little torque on it, but it does more more freely than before like the video.

 

[boonedocks]

I would consider this quite ridiculous:

 

[Maximapolak]

I would consider this quite ridiculous:

What in the fudge?

 

[chillaban]

What in the fudge?

Violently wiggling the wheel is ignored. It takes firm steady torque to clear the nag. I'm not sure what one is hoping to accomplish by doing what the driver is doing in the video.