Software version that disables radar?

[JerseyShoreMY]

They should have gotten them certified prior to launching Vision, if it was as safe or safer.

Makes those whom are prone to questioning actions from "people who've seen the data," question a lot of things.

If it was 100% ready to go, passed all non-Tesla Safety Agency authorities, passed with flying colors and scored the highest safety ratings, even above a Model 3 and Y... that would be one thing.

It didnt. Those non-Tesla Safety Agencies downgraded it, because it hadnt been tested. Tesla itself neutured several safety features to push Vision, with a promise it'll get better... we just need more data! Question everything, especial if its a car full of your less tech savvy family that had a working radar that stopped the car in time vs one that didnt have a radar, or one that was deactivated without notifying the drivers. The car won't behave the same between Vision and Radar equipped.

If Tesla was smart, they'd just let consumers decide to upgrade to the next model year... heck, if its a million times better and can toast bread, make it a paid upgrade like FSD or speed boost.

I foresee many lawsuits when real world data crashes don't match internal Tesla data.

Clearly Tesla was squeezed and rushed to remove radar set, we know this as the delivery of MY's was disrupted recently.
The legal blue button protects them, and likely yes you can opt out after taking delivery (30 days). But it is a safe bet, the lawyers will keep the process honest. Yea sure. We all love the results of legal battles, no one wins but lawyers get legal fees. Here is where I hope you are wrong on many lawsuits.
I am going to bet that Musk is allergic to legal fees and lawyers getting rich off of him, Tesla and the owners.
I will also add that our driving older vin MY's AP was different than the current AP in our new MY. While I can not quantify that, someone here on the Tesla forum likely can.

 

[BreatheEasier]

I'm personally planning on denying the update if it disables radar until it is at least on par with non-radar. I've been overall happy with all the safety assist features, and they have proven to be valuable, and no doubt in several poor visibility situations (not using AP, but rather forward collision warning and AEB) have been excellent. Based on reports, I doubt they would work as well without radar in the current state released to the fleet.

 

[jjrandorin]

ianal, but I am not 100% convinced they'd win (tesla) in court if they tried to deny me warranty due to NOT taking a sw update.

has this ever been challenged? the idea that if you dont 'update' something that is quite functional and 'fine for your purpose' - how can the vendor invalidate all the things in the car? that's what they are saying? they dont call out which things are invalidated, they blanket invalidate (by this language) the WHOLE CAR. that does not seem legal to me.

I'm still refusing updates. and if something is denied warranty coverage because I did not do an update, I'll see them in small claims and that will be the end of my tesla ownership forever.

they need to rethink this blanket statement. magnussen/moss would have something very serious to say about this.

I am not going back down this rabbit hole with you, but I suspect (but dont know because I also am not a lawyer) that anything that you had a problem with, that was corrected in a later software version, would require you to take that software version to fix it.

Since they can update many functions on the car (including things like how the car brakes, etc) via software, if you have a warranty issue that is one of the many systems that has been upgraded via software, and refuse it, they will likely say "ok well we cant fix it then".

Since many of the cars interconnected systems are controlled by software, It would probably easier to say what is still covered, rather than what isnt covered (magnusson moss). I am also not convinced that Tesla would win here, but I think all they would need to say (in small claims court) is "we tried to address Mr. Linux Works issue with a software update, which is how we fix this issue, but he refuses software updates, so we have no other way to help him with this issue."

Right now, people are getting close to what they paid for, for the used teslas, so now is a really good time to sell, and get a vehicle which matches peoples expectations related to software updates.

 

[stopcrazypp]

ianal, but I am not 100% convinced they'd win (tesla) in court if they tried to deny me warranty due to NOT taking a sw update.

has this ever been challenged? the idea that if you dont 'update' something that is quite functional and 'fine for your purpose' - how can the vendor invalidate all the things in the car? that's what they are saying? they dont call out which things are invalidated, they blanket invalidate (by this language) the WHOLE CAR. that does not seem legal to me.

I'm still refusing updates. and if something is denied warranty coverage because I did not do an update, I'll see them in small claims and that will be the end of my tesla ownership forever.

they need to rethink this blanket statement. magnussen/moss would have something very serious to say about this.

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act does not allow denying the entire warranty for an issue affecting a subsection of parts. This is most often challenged when talking about aftermarket parts and other modifications to vehicles.
Keeping Your Mod's Warranty Intact - dummies

As for software updates, certain fixes for problems are software based (given modern cars rely so much on software). Also some recalls are software based. I don't think there has been an example yet where an owner had stood ground and refused to accept a software update based fix because it affects other functionality (like where an owner insists they want a fix to a particular problem, but don't want their software updated for other functions). I do remember there are cases where Tesla engineers can issue a custom software patch for a particular customer for problems that are fairly unique (and fix may not be ready to issue fleetwide), but don't think it was because of any insistence from the customer. Most people, even if they don't like the software changes, just hold their noses and take them if it means it is required to fix a particular problem (they do their own cost/benefit analysis).

 

[MY-Y]

2021.4.18.3, still have radar as ecidenced by 90 MPH max vs 75. Note, no speeding needed to verify.

 

[slipnslider]

ianal, but I am not 100% convinced they'd win (tesla) in court if they tried to deny me warranty due to NOT taking a sw update.

has this ever been challenged? the idea that if you dont 'update' something that is quite functional and 'fine for your purpose' - how can the vendor invalidate all the things in the car? that's what they are saying? they dont call out which things are invalidated, they blanket invalidate (by this language) the WHOLE CAR. that does not seem legal to me.

I'm still refusing updates. and if something is denied warranty coverage because I did not do an update, I'll see them in small claims and that will be the end of my tesla ownership forever.

they need to rethink this blanket statement. magnussen/moss would have something very serious to say about this.

If you refuse updates, they'll just make stuff stop working on your car to force you. I haven't updated since they made the UI worse and now today I can't precondition the AC in my car anymore.

 

[linux-works]

If you refuse updates, they'll just make stuff stop working on your car to force you. I haven't updated since they made the UI worse and now today I can't precondition the AC in my car anymore.

that does not quite make sense to me. either they did do an update to you or they did not.

btw, the phone app can also be updated (and frozen, too, at least on android). I have mine frozen to pre-december version and for all my phone stuff, I disable all auto-everything.

so, are you saying that you can't change climate things from outside the car, using the phone?

 

[stopcrazypp]

If you refuse updates, they'll just make stuff stop working on your car to force you. I haven't updated since they made the UI worse and now today I can't precondition the AC in my car anymore.

As another pointed out, they need to push an update to be able to do that, which if you always click not to update, they can't do that. It might be that you updated your phone app and that broke the compatibility. You must disable any phone updates also if you intend to keep using a older version of the software.

 

[Tha_Ape]

If you bring your car to a SC, does it auto-update? I've had mine disconnected from the internet (well its obviously on LTE) because I got one of the last MY's with radar made. It was a pain in the butt finding a MYLR7 with radar in late May, but I did it. Sadly I need to take it into the SC next week to get some mechanical stuff fixed (was a demo car).

Sounds like I'm safe with this update, but I'm not clear how SCs work. I read the manual and it said if you get to an SC it auto connects, I just wanted to know if it installs updates, too.

 

[MP3Mike]

As another pointed out, they need to push an update to be able to do that, which if you always click not to update, they can't do that. It might be that you updated your phone app and that broke the compatibility. You must disable any phone updates also if you intend to keep using a older version of the software.

Not true. All they have to do is update their servers to make them incompatible with your app and/or car.

 

[JerseyShoreMY]

If you bring your car to a SC, does it auto-update? I've had mine disconnected from the internet (well its obviously on LTE) because I got one of the last MY's with radar made. It was a pain in the butt finding a MYLR7 with radar in late May, but I did it. Sadly I need to take it into the SC next week to get some mechanical stuff fixed (was a demo car).

Sounds like I'm safe with this update, but I'm not clear how SCs work. I read the manual and it said if you get to an SC it auto connects, I just wanted to know if it installs updates, too.

Bet on it. SC will likely insist on updates.
You can ask when you drop off, let us know pls.

 

[Tha_Ape]

Bet on it. SC will likely insist on updates.
You can ask when you drop off, let us know pls.

Ok, I'll ask. You're probably right since to stay in warranty you have to be on the latest SW. I didnt get FSD and for some reason still have the green light beep. I cant turn it off, but I like it. I hope it doesnt remove that!

 

[stopcrazypp]

Bet on it. SC will likely insist on updates.
You can ask when you drop off, let us know pls.

Not in my experience. I previously didn't update (was still on update before the UI change) and the SC didn't update the car for me for both times they had my car.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Not true. All they have to do is update their servers to make them incompatible with your app and/or car.

I guess there are two parts to it. One is what happens in the car itself. They can't change that without you agreeing to update the car (other than feature removals related to features "unpaid" and things like disabling supercharging when a car changes to salvage title).

The other is the API that works with the app. Yes I guess you are technically right, they can make a change to the API on their servers to break specific functionality, but they haven't done this in the past. They have changed the authorization tokens/method, but they have kept the API calls the same.

 

[MP3Mike]

The other is the API that works with the app. Yes I guess you are technically right, they can make a change to the API on their servers to break specific functionality, but they haven't done this in the past. They have changed the authorization tokens, but they have kept the API calls the same.

In the past they have also changed the method of communicating with their servers that broke connectivity and app functionality if you didn't upgrade the car. (Switching from using a VPN to WebSockets.)

So they do have a history of dropping support for old versions, though they sent people emails and pop-ups on the MCU warning them that they would lose functionality, including the ability to upgrade without a Service Center visit, if they didn't upgrade.

 

[ChrgdTeCHick]

I would get pulled over so fast going 75 that I don’t want to even try....

Yikes were do you live? Interstates around me are 70mph speed limit and if you're doing under 80-85 even the cops are flying by you. Annoying as I don't like to speed so I feel like I'm doing 30 when doing 75

 

[Waldokind]

Just installed 2022.20.9 on my refreshed Model S and they took my radar away :-(

Warning to the rest of you.

They say “Welcome to Tesla Vision! It‘s great” and then stretch the min follow distance to “2” (disabling 1) and limiting TACC to 85, which is plenty fast enough but not letting me choose and ignoring a perfectly good safety sensor SUCKS!

 

[Jjrss]

Just installed 2022.20.9 on my refreshed Model S and they took my radar away :-(

Warning to the rest of you.

They say “Welcome to Tesla Vision! It‘s great” and then stretch the min follow distance to “2” (disabling 1) and limiting TACC to 85, which is plenty fast enough but not letting me choose and ignoring a perfectly good safety sensor SUCKS!

Anyone confirm this has happened on a 2021 MY yet?

 

[Bluejug]

Got notification to update to 2022.20.9 2 Days ago. 2021 Model Y Long Range delivered Nov 2020. Have not and will not update as release notes for this version indicates it will deactivate Radar. Beware this version promises to deactivate the Radar you paid for with no apparent improvement in functionality.

 

[kishkaru]

I'm on the version right before that, 2022.20.8 on my Model Y. I'm going to stay on this version forever, until Elon gives me FSD I paid for 2 years ago.
At that point, radar needs to be disabled for FSD anyway (Tesla Vision), so there's no choice but to upgrade and disable radar.