Solar power roof

[MOE J]

Teslas have black glass roofs, why can’t they implement solar panels to charge the battery while the car sits in the sun all day ?. Even 5 % would be possible ?. Seems like a no brainer.

 

[DuncanM]

"Said to provide" is a buzzword for "never gonna happen". "Reckons"? That sounds like they probably know it won't, but don't want to tell you.

Literally 30 seconds of web searching gets me this "On a cloudy day, a solar panel can typically produce 10 to 25% of its typical power capacity. " and "Solar panels can produce electricity on cloudy days, but not always on overcast days. " and this is from a company that does its business designing solar arrays(Solar Alliance | Commercial & Residential Solar Company). I assume they are not exaggerating because they don't want to get sued. I know you REALLY want Lightyear to be not lying and your REALLY want car solar to be worthwhile, but IMHO neither is true. Its cool though. Sign up for your LV0 or LV2 for 250k, and let us know how it goes.

Once again, don't forget that many of us(people who live on earth in population centers) do NOT live in ideal conditions. Between the latitude and clouds, It looks like New Englanders might se a bit more than half of that. Note you could say the same about Norway, Ireland, England....

I see you are in southern BC. Average Peak Sun Hours by Province in Canada - Solar BC says 1200-1600 peak sun hours per year, which turns into 3.28-4.38 per day. You know what 'Ideal' probably is.... Arizona, at 7-8 peak sun hours per day. So the ABSOLUTE BEST CASE you MIGHT get half the purported 7.4. And that's assuming when you park your car at work its in the middle of an open parking lot with no trees/buildings around, not the convenient spaces where it'll be in full shade for half the day.

And just for confirmation... 5 sq meters is ~54 square feet. Multiply that by 21.2w per sq foot of panel, and we get 1145 watts, in full sun. Stick that in Arizona perfectly inclined to the sun, and you get 8kwh. At least they are not obviously lying about that number(yay!) I assume the difference between 7.4 and 8 is they are either rounding up to 5 sq meters or they simply can't get all the cells to point in the same (ideal) direction at once.

Don't forget that these 100 million cars are going to be lugging around an extra ~75lbs of solar panels. (It'd be 128, but I'm assuming there's a 50lb savings for building them into the roof. That's going to be wasted energy for every mile driven.

We're talking about the average EV in North America and by your numbers that equates to about 5.5 hrs of effective sunlight/vehicle. Today, I try to find a shady spot to park my vehicle, but if I had PV solar built into it, my preference for parking spots will change...

The reduction in range due to an added ~75lb pounds is almost unmeasurable, in a 4000lb vehicle.

 

[Rocky_H]

I've shown that PV solar panels, built into cars, could meet a substantial portion of the power needed, for the average daily commute.

I don't think we have seen that shown.

 

[ucmndd]

The plan for North America is to fully replace ICE vehicle production with EVs by 2035ish, so looking forward there will be ~100 million EVs on the road, in North America, in the fairly near future, and far more than ~100 million going past 2035 as ICE vehicles are fully replaced

What is this “plan” you keep talking about? I’ve seen lots of ambitions in this arena, very few “plans”.

Far less than half of the US has even confirmed an ambition to replace ICE vehicles by 2035 - let alone developed a plan.

 

[ucmndd]

We're talking about the average EV in North America and by your numbers that equates to about 5.5 hrs of effective sunlight/vehicle. Today, I try to find a shady spot to park my vehicle, but if I had PV solar built into it, my preference for parking spots will change...

…yet we have the same simple reality that putting the same amount of solar panels OVER the parking lot and parking the car in the shade is an all around entirely more efficient and productive use of resources.

 

[DuncanM]

…yet we have the same simple reality that putting the same amount of solar panels OVER the parking lot and parking the car in the shade is an all around entirely more efficient and productive use of resources.

Adding a solar canopy to a parking lot is a very expensive proposition, and aside from the cost, there's also the regulatory nightmare involved, which adds to the cost, along with the needed expansion of EV charging points.

As a consumer, I have the individual ability to buy what I want, but I don't have the individual ability to force infrastructure or regulatory changes, such as PV canopied parking lots, nor to add the needed EV charging points.

We see this now, as we can buy all buy EVs (if we have the means) but we cannot ensure that we have access to charging or charging via renewable energy without recourse to external authority, which may or may not be amenable to spending the funds to allow that.

 

[DuncanM]

What is this “plan” you keep talking about? I’ve seen lots of ambitions in this arena, very few “plans”.

Far less than half of the US has even confirmed an ambition to replace ICE vehicles by 2035 - let alone developed a plan.

I was going to reply in detail but if you're not aware of US and Cdn Federal plans to accelerate adoption of EVs then I think that's something for you to research.

 

[MOE J]

And others will all be offering solar power as an option.

 

[cmaster]

There's so many people in the USA who oppose having mandates by the government. And, a great many of those who don't want to invest in improving their skill in repairing electric cars. The Leaf has been out there for a long time, and there's still only a small number of repair shops that will service them.

Even BMW will not service their own cars due to lack of technicians willing to work on them. Rich Rebuild did a video on his i8 and how difficult it is to get BMW dealership to take care of the problem.

The population loves to fight instead of acceptance that change is coming. The USA is a little difficult. Mass adoption by 2035 going to be hard. Took nearly 80 years to prove that acid rain destroyed the environment after the Industrial Revolution.

 

[MOE J]

We are slow to change, don’t like change and far behind other countries in tech.

 

[MOE J]

In the near future, solar panel will be the size of a lap top to power a vehicle, prediction.

 

[ucmndd]

Adding a solar canopy to a parking lot is a very expensive proposition

Far less expensive, for the net benefit and energy produced, than thousands of tiny fragile arrays on individual vehicles.

and aside from the cost, there's also the regulatory nightmare involved

My brother is an engineer for a firm that does ground-mount solar almost exclusively. As a rule, I would not call solar canopies over parking lots a "regulatory nightmare". These are some of the easiest and most obvious sites to develop, with minimal environmental impact and significant secondary benefit.

We are obviously not going to find mutual ground on this topic, and that's perfectly fine. I'm all for choice in the marketplace and if automakers want to add this as an option for me to decline and you to accept then more power to them. However I maintain my position that the economics, given the current reality of PV efficiency and the complexity added to the vehicle, just do not pencil out. Cars, especially EVs, have already become so complex and difficult to repair as to be almost uninsurable - creating a significant and ever-escalating cost for everyone. The energy benefits realized - for the vast, overwhelming majority of individuals - do not make economic or environmental sense.

 

[Gasaraki]

There's so many people in the USA who oppose having mandates by the government. And, a great many of those who don't want to invest in improving their skill in repairing electric cars. The Leaf has been out there for a long time, and there's still only a small number of repair shops that will service them.

Even BMW will not service their own cars due to lack of technicians willing to work on them. Rich Rebuild did a video on his i8 and how difficult it is to get BMW dealership to take care of the problem.

The population loves to fight instead of acceptance that change is coming. The USA is a little difficult. Mass adoption by 2035 going to be hard. Took nearly 80 years to prove that acid rain destroyed the environment after the Industrial Revolution.

Amen. That is why the Asian countries will catch up and surpass the US. They gobble up new technology.

 

[ucmndd]

In the near future, solar panel will be the size of a lap top to power a vehicle, prediction.

I hope not, because the only way that's physically possible is if the sun becomes a red giant and engulfs the earth.

 

[NewbyMaybe]

Solar is very awesome. Modern vehicles consume vastly more awesome amounts of energy. If it was practical it would be available.

 

[DRYICE69]

The fisker ocean has it, it adds like 1 or 2 miles of range a day. Went as well as you would expect for them.

 

[jjrandorin]

I've shown that PV solar panels, built into cars, could meet a substantial portion of the power needed, for the average daily commute.

I dont see where you have shown that (and no, post #30 of a company that has not released the product isnt any sort of proof).

 

[Sophias_dad]

In the near future, solar panel will be the size of a lap top to power a vehicle, prediction.

Did you not see that the absolute maximum energy available in sunlight is around 1120 watts per square meter? One handy laptop is about 1 square foot, or 1/10th of a square meter(closer to 1/11th, but I'll be optimistic. This means that if you have absolutely perfect solar panels that absorb every bit of light(including infrared) for that laptop sized square, you will get 112w continuous. Lets put that at the equator, in full sun for 12 hours a day because 'night' is a thing even at the equator. That's 112x12h, or 1.344kwh PER DAY. Keep in mind, there is no 'miracle' that might happen in the future that will make that laptop sized panel put out more power. That's the physics of it, full stop. Your laptop sized panel, if its PERFECT, will provide enough power to run the computers ASLEEP in a model 3 for the day, PLUS two miles of range. Sure, you could say 'but the lightyear 0' yadda yadda.... okay, lets ignore the power to keep the computer running, and its 169wh/mile for the LY0 and never use ANY HVAC for the sunniest place on the planet... That'll get you EIGHT whole miles per day, with a completely unrealistic scenario.

I agree it'd be great if solar panels were able to put out more power than is landing on them, but its not possible now and never will be.

 

[DuncanM]

I dont see where you have shown that (and no, post #30 of a company that has not released the product isnt any sort of proof).

I disagree, but here's a real world test where the Lightyear one's PV panels delivered 3.45kwh in about 10 hours on a mostly cloudy day in Germany (51.9d north):

Lightyear One prototype delivers 441 miles on 60kWh (+3.45kWh solar) in latest track test

A prototype of the Lightyear One solar electric vehicle (SEV) has recently delivered tremendous range, all packed into a 60 kWh battery pack.

electrek.co

 

[ucmndd]

I disagree, but here's a real world test where the Lightyear one's PV panels delivered 3.45kwh in about 10 hours on a mostly cloudy day in Germany

So a hand-built nowhere near market viability one-off concept vehicle was outside for 10 hours and produced… about 80 cents of electricity at current average rates in the US.

Their production car, the Lightyear Zero, cost a QUARTER MILLION EUROS before they stopped making it and the company that manufactured it went bankrupt.

At that rate, you’ll break even compared to a typical $50k EV in only… 685 years of operation.

And this is evidence the concept is sound? Come on.

 

[yesimon]

I don't know what the point is being made from the example of Lightyear Zero when there's a realistic example on the market today, which is the solar roof on the Prius Prime.

It costs $610 for a 185W panel, which is ~$3.30/W and roughly the same pricing as residential rooftop PV in the US. Yes that price is more expensive than utility solar, but the economics are clearly proven here. Nobody is forcing you to put solar panels on your car (yet), but trying to kill the idea by saying it's unrealistic and never be worth it are just as far off base.