Tweeting really at anything @elonmusk or @tesla says....
Plus created a Doge Meme...
I mean worth the try right?
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Solar Roof, big price increase
- Thread starter nicholb
- Start date
Plus created a Doge Meme...
I mean worth the try right?
Hey all,
First post. I am one of those customers with a price hike and just want to throw this out there in case it hasn't already been discussed. Tesla has as of yet NOT broken their original contracts with us. They have simply asked us to sign a new contract or cancel our orders (contracts). As far as I can see, there is nothing in the original contract that allows these changes in prices, which is why they want us to sign a new one. I have asked Tesla representatives point blank if they intend to break the old contract or even if they believe these changes are consistent with the old contract and they will not answer these simple questions (which is telling). Now they come back a few days later to sweeten the pot for canceling our orders (paying for any costs we have incurred). My assessment is that they know they are still on the hook for the original contracts and are trying to clear out as many of us as possible with misdirection tactics. I highly doubt the arbiter would look kindly on a $600bn company breaking a contract because they decided they wanted to charge more money and wouldn't abide by the terms otherwise - so they will try to get us to cancel these orders of our own volition before it comes to that. I'd suggest emailing the resolutions email to start your 60-day arbitration clock and demand they abide by the original contract. Thoughts?
First post. I am one of those customers with a price hike and just want to throw this out there in case it hasn't already been discussed. Tesla has as of yet NOT broken their original contracts with us. They have simply asked us to sign a new contract or cancel our orders (contracts). As far as I can see, there is nothing in the original contract that allows these changes in prices, which is why they want us to sign a new one. I have asked Tesla representatives point blank if they intend to break the old contract or even if they believe these changes are consistent with the old contract and they will not answer these simple questions (which is telling). Now they come back a few days later to sweeten the pot for canceling our orders (paying for any costs we have incurred). My assessment is that they know they are still on the hook for the original contracts and are trying to clear out as many of us as possible with misdirection tactics. I highly doubt the arbiter would look kindly on a $600bn company breaking a contract because they decided they wanted to charge more money and wouldn't abide by the terms otherwise - so they will try to get us to cancel these orders of our own volition before it comes to that. I'd suggest emailing the resolutions email to start your 60-day arbitration clock and demand they abide by the original contract. Thoughts?
Exactly my thought.
I'm holding out, install scheduled in 3 weeks. Rip-off in a few days.
Anyone have a sooner date that we can benchmark?
I hear ya on not assuming old contract is dead. I keep referring to it in my emails with them and AG as the “executed agreement” as it is. The new one is only “proposed”. That said, they’ve avoided installing mine for a year, and I’m probably going to need my roof before next winter, so...
Edit: Also, so we’re clear, just assume Tesla is following this thread. Hi Elon!
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This is where we really need to community to come together.
Sadly lots of push back on Facebook... Tesla Fans saying "oh well,""that sucks," even "well the prices were too low anyway."
Hope that changes as it gets out!
Just to be clear this outcome isn't going to happen. No arbiter or court will force Tesla to perform on the existing contracts. The worst that can happen for Tesla (if this goes to arbitration or court) is they will have to pay out some "damages" to people affected. Showing the damages will not be easy for people who only spend their time and effort. So, the only way Tesla will honor these contracts is if they change their mind under some other pressure from media, social media, state AG, SEIA, etc. So, we need to all write to SEIA, your state AGs, media to put as much pressure on Tesla to do the right thing and honor existing contracts. Arbitration and court won't help in most cases.
I hardly think that Tesla performing “isn’t going to happen” it would be one thing if Tesla COULD not perform, but they can perform. There are various reasons why customers will only push so far, but a short Google search is all you need to find examples of construction companies forced to perform, as long as performance is possible.
RainMeister
E = M3P
It's not surprising Tesla is offering to reimburse for your out-of-pocket costs because they would most likely lose, whether it be in arbitration or litigation. You would have a claim for Detrimental Reliance.
To establish a DR claim, you would have to prove the following elements:
- A promise was made (original Tesla agreement)
- Relying on the promise was reasonable or foreseeable (you actually did rely by your actions)
- There was actual and reasonable reliance on the promise (ditto)
- The reliance was detrimental (your out-of-pocket expenses)
- Injustice can only be prevented by enforcing the promise (Tesla covers your expenses or honors the original contract price)
RainMeister
E = M3P
I just got my notice today about the price increase, but not the revised contract, so I called Tesla. My original quote was $43k for just the solar roof, but I am now told it is $85k!
The contract was entered into just two months ago. The city permit was approved last month, followed promptly by the survey team who visited the house. I was informed just last week the roof removal would occur next week, followed immediately thereafter by the roof installation.
I was thinking "Wow, that was fast", but I think we now know why. Who in their right mind would agree to pay twice the originally quoted price for anything, nevermind a solar panel or roof? Customers must be canceling in droves. Perhaps that was Tesla's intention with this announcement.
Our roof is a bit complicated, so I could understand the quote being adjusted by a few thousand dollars after the design review, but to basically double the price is a fraudulent misrepresentation. While material prices may have increased, my quote was from just 2 months ago, so Tesla would have a difficult time claiming any cost increase was unforeseeable, even if that was a legally valid excuse.
Before I placed my order on the solar roof, one of my greatest concerns was whether Tesla (or its solar division, should it ever be spun off) would be around for the next 25~30 years to honor its warranty, or to supply replacement tiles or inverter if they should ever break. If they continue to do business like this, I have no doubt they will not survive because there are, and always will be, competitors who know how to properly run a business; i.e., treat its customers right.
After happily buying my M3P last year, I've been a Tesla evangelist among my coworkers, friends and family. I'm not so sure now. Perhaps I should replace it with an EV from a more established and trustworthy brand.
The contract was entered into just two months ago. The city permit was approved last month, followed promptly by the survey team who visited the house. I was informed just last week the roof removal would occur next week, followed immediately thereafter by the roof installation.
I was thinking "Wow, that was fast", but I think we now know why. Who in their right mind would agree to pay twice the originally quoted price for anything, nevermind a solar panel or roof? Customers must be canceling in droves. Perhaps that was Tesla's intention with this announcement.
Our roof is a bit complicated, so I could understand the quote being adjusted by a few thousand dollars after the design review, but to basically double the price is a fraudulent misrepresentation. While material prices may have increased, my quote was from just 2 months ago, so Tesla would have a difficult time claiming any cost increase was unforeseeable, even if that was a legally valid excuse.
Before I placed my order on the solar roof, one of my greatest concerns was whether Tesla (or its solar division, should it ever be spun off) would be around for the next 25~30 years to honor its warranty, or to supply replacement tiles or inverter if they should ever break. If they continue to do business like this, I have no doubt they will not survive because there are, and always will be, competitors who know how to properly run a business; i.e., treat its customers right.
After happily buying my M3P last year, I've been a Tesla evangelist among my coworkers, friends and family. I'm not so sure now. Perhaps I should replace it with an EV from a more established and trustworthy brand.
I've had a signed contract 2 months ago for our vacation home in Pinecrest for $44K. Our roof is a simple A frame with a single ridge at the top. No valleys or any other elevations. It's about as simple as you can get.
So does this mean they're going to lower my price for roof simplicity since the price increases are for roof complexity?
So does this mean they're going to lower my price for roof simplicity since the price increases are for roof complexity?
I've had a signed contract 2 months ago for our vacation home in Pinecrest for $44K. Our roof is a simple A frame with a single ridge at the top. No valleys or any other elevations. It's about as simple as you can get.
So does this mean they're going to lower my price for roof simplicity since the price increases are for roof complexity?
Let us know! Haha...
The roof estimator prices for simple jumped ~$10k for the ~2300 sqft. about a week or so ago.
This is interesting. Can I ask what you are basing this assertion on? I know next to nothing about arbitration, so perhaps there are rules or standard practices that guarantee a company can get out of performing? If this is an area you have expertise in please share!
Anyone else notice that Tesla just pulled the "product information" pdf off of the account page? Among other things, it has a detailed layout of the design which was already agreed to, and I think is evidence that the changes do not correspond to any design changes to the solar portion of the roof.
Maybe my language was too strong. I should have said "is very unlikely to happen" rather than "isn't going to happen". I got this from consulting with a friend law professor and his wife who is a practicing attorney in New York.
Let's say that we were able to prove that the breach of contract occurred, which isn't a slam dunk, but let's assume that this part was accomplished. Now, the court or the arbiter needs to decide on the appropriate remedy. Here is one source that describes various remedies that could be awarded in a breach of contract cases Breach of Contract Explained for Construction Contractors | Levelset. "Specific performance" is what would require Tesla to honor the existing contracts and is very rarely used by courts as a remedy for a contract breach especially when the contract includes a service like installation. If it was about delivery of a vehicle or some other goods - it's totally feasible, but for installation of the roof? I don't know if you want your roof installed by someone who is forced to do it against their will.
Wow, a logical non emotional response
I had damage to my garage door 10 weeks ago. Ordered new ones but was told 10 weeks to get. So I just talked to the garage guy. He called mfg and
was told its at least another 2 months. The material they need is from Texas and they are having issues. All the garage door mfg's are being impacted with this issue, and things like steel prices going nuts. At least he did not tell me my price was also going up.
I think the only real argument - and why I would put it in the very unlikely (or even extremely unlikely) category - for specific performance would be the very unique nature of the product and the apparent case that in many (most?) areas it is not an option to use a 3rd-party installer. As addressed in your link:
I have said above that I am not convinced the solar roof would qualify as sufficiently unique, but it is perhaps a closer question than if you had a contractor for an asphalt roof back out of a job, where there are typically many other local contractors who could jump right in and do virtually the same work.
And, like a lot of the legal issues confronting customers, I think it will be difficult and time consuming to press these claims when the opportunity for class/mass actions are foreclosed by the arbitration clause.
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