Solar Roof update of sorts

[Larry]

I need information for construction drawings. I do have a Plan B (build the garage & an apartment first without solar tiles, then build the house when tile production will fit my construction schedule). I just received a reply back - either I'll have at least some of the information next week or be told when the information should be available. It was noted that they have a growing list of homebuilders with the same request for the minimal requirements I asked for - so they know it is needed.

Hard to sell tiles if you can't tell people what to plan for . But since I'm committed to a solar roof on the house, I have my backup plan in place 'just in case'.

I look forward to the info.

 

[miimura]

The most important factor is the structural engineering load. I would think that designing the roof for the weight of ceramic tile plus conventional solar panels would be sufficient. What else did you ask for @bonnie ???

 

[bonnie]

The most important factor is the structural engineering load. I would think that designing the roof for the weight of ceramic tile plus conventional solar panels would be sufficient. What else did you ask for @bonnie ???

I also want minimal slope for installation - easy enough to figure out the perfect slope/direction, but want to know the parameters from a design standpoint. I also assume that weight will vary, depending on the tile style. Additionally, I assume that they will start with one style first - which one? I want slate. If that's not coming out of production first, I may opt for Plan B.

 

[brucet999]

I need information for construction drawings. I do have a Plan B (build the garage & an apartment first without solar tiles, then build the house when tile production will fit my construction schedule). I just received a reply back - either I'll have at least some of the information next week or be told when the information should be available. It was noted that they have a growing list of homebuilders with the same request for the minimal requirements I asked for - so they know it is needed.

Hard to sell tiles if you can't tell people what to plan for . But since I'm committed to a solar roof on the house, I have my backup plan in place 'just in case'.

Thanks for the update, Bonnie.

 

[brucet999]

I also want minimal slope for installation - easy enough to figure out the perfect slope/direction, but want to know the parameters from a design standpoint. I also assume that weight will vary, depending on the tile style. Additionally, I assume that they will start with one style first - which one? I want slate. If that's not coming out of production first, I may opt for Plan B.

If these are tempered glass of some sort, they would be very difficult to cut or bore holes on-site, so you definitely need to know how they will handle roof penetrations for stacks and vents, as well as how they handle attic ventilation for hipped roofs that can't use gable-end vents.

Another thing you will need to know is how the courses of tiles will be connected electrically. It is clear from pictures at the October event that there are two nailing holes at the top of each tile and, since slate wants to lay flat, there can't be much space for wires to go up to the top edge of the next course of tiles on the surface of the roof deck, so it is likely that there will be at least two deck penetrations per course; one at each end. How would those wire be flashed to prevent leaking?

Slate tiles, with half their length overlapped, will still want at least a 3-12 pitch and can work nicely on steep pitches in excess of 12-12, so almost any roof pitch will be fine. For solar efficiency, a pitch angle up to 60º would work, since the sun altitude would range between 68º max in summer and 21º in winter, with the average ( at the equinoxes) being 45º, just right for a 12-12 pitch.

 

[brucet999]

I just had another thought about why the dimensions of the various styles of SolarRoof tiles are so different.

Tuscan and slate are about 15" long and they overlap half of the preceding course like the ones they are meant to emulate. Being thin, they would be similar to slate in weight and likely lighter than concrete or clay tiles, so they should work well on any roof designed for slate, clay or concrete tile loads.

Textured and Smooth are both only about 8" long x 16" or 8" wide, respectively. Being fairly thin, and overlapping only about 2", they probably won't weigh a lot more than composition shingles which overlap a full 8" over the previous course. I'm guessing that these two versions might be able to work on roofs engineered for composition shingle weight loads, especially since a re-roof of comp shingles is allowed to be done (one time) over an old comp roof without tearing off, thus doubling the weight per square.

 

[ohmman]

But since I'm committed to a solar roof on the house, I have my backup plan in place 'just in case'.

Call me a terrible cynic, but I think a backup plan is absolutely essential for any kind of reasonably "soon" timeframe. I just don't see this happening as fast as we'd all like. But I'll be happy to admit when I'm wrong.

 

[neville]

I own a roofing company. One of my guys contacted Tesla around the first of the year and couldn't really get any helpful information. I'm going to try again before this month is out. I particularly want to know if they are planning to hire, train, and use in-house installers or if they are interested in certifying partners. The big issue for us is that here in north Texas we get late winter / early spring hail storms almost every year. The dropping-a-1.2-lb-steel-ball demonstration is interesting, but when a baseball-sized chunk of ice hits your roof at 50+ MPH, that's a whole 'nother animal, as they say.

Tile, slate, and standing seam metal roofs are not unknown around here, certainly, but it is common to see $1M homes with asphalt shingles. They might be high-end 3-layer "designer" shingles, but they cost a small fraction of those others. If glass roofs start to become popular, I'm positive that insurance premiums will jump as well.

Has anyone heard/read anything about whether Tesla/SC is shooting for approval for solar tax credits? The 30% federal income tax credit starts tapering off dramatically in 2019 and is supposedly going away in 2021.

 

[timpierc]

Tile, slate, and standing seam metal roofs are not unknown around here, certainly, but it is common to see $1M homes with asphalt shingles. They might be high-end 3-layer "designer" shingles, but they cost a small fraction of those others. If glass roofs start to become popular, I'm positive that insurance premiums will jump as well.

I'm from Amarillo, so I definitely agree. If you watch the video from October when they drop the steel weight, it breaks the Tesla tile, it just doesn't shatter like the terracotta and slate tiles do. I'm guessing they have a 3M like anti shatter film on it.

At the same time the normal solar panels go through a pretty rigorous process to show they can survive hail. Since most roofs are pitched (and in Texas some very highly pitched) it's not like the panels are taking a direct hit from the hail. Time will tell with these panels, but I'd like to think these panels would be designed to take just as much damage as normal asphalt. Of course nothing beats steel or cement tile roofs.

 

[brucet999]

Time will tell with these panels, but I'd like to think these panels would be designed to take just as much damage as normal asphalt. Of course nothing beats steel or cement tile roofs.

I've walked on enough of concrete and clay tile roofs to know that you must step gingerly and only on the nose of the tile to avoid breaking them. Concrete tiles are actually quite brittle and when struck near the center could break fairly easily. Impact damage from hail is far more likely with any tile than with composition shingles unless it is big enough to go right through the roof.

 

[brucet999]

I own a roofing company.

If glass roofs start to become popular, I'm positive that insurance premiums will jump as well.

Has anyone heard/read anything about whether Tesla/SC is shooting for approval for solar tax credits? The 30% federal income tax credit starts tapering off dramatically in 2019 and is supposedly going away in 2021.

Are you talking about workman comp premiums going up with guys walking on a 6-12 roof with slick glass shingles?

Seriously, as a roofing contractor, what do you think of having to walk on glass either during install or for repairs afterwards?

I would guess that homeowners insurance premiums would be comparable to slate and concrete tile for hail damage, but what about wind tearing off comp shingles vs heavier glass tiles? Seems like it would be a wash.

Does Tesla have to do anything to get approval for 30% tax credit? I thought all that was required was for homeowner to install some PV array or battery storage equipment to qualify. Or are you referring to sorting out how much of the roof is PV and how much is just inactive roof tiles?

BTW, what do you think of my roof load speculations in post #46? Do you suppose that smooth or textured SolarRoof tiles might not weigh much more per square than two layers of comp?

 

[joefee]

@joefee, how in the world can you "disagree" with a factual report of what a Solar City employee told me?

You weren't there, you didn't hear the conversation, so you cannot possibly disagree.

Sheesh!

What are you talking about, I do not have any posts in this thread????

 

[Ulmo]

What are you talking about, I do not have any posts in this thread????

It's possible you hit "Dislike" on something that the site administrators renamed to "Disagree". I did find record of something above which shows your login and "Disagree". Computers run on software so everything in them is modifiable.

 

[PaulRocket]

UPDATE:
Tesla will start taking orders for the solar roof starting april:
Elon Musk on Twitter

 

[Larry]

UPDATE:
Tesla will start taking orders for the solar roof starting april:
Elon Musk on Twitter

Thanks. I wonder how long it will take to actually get the roof tiles after ordering. I can't tolerate Tesla time for this project. Guess I will have to wait and see

 

[Larry]

Thanks. I wonder how long it will take to actually get the roof tiles after ordering. I can't tolerate Tesla time for this project. Guess I will have to wait and see

Anybody have anymore info?

 

[Roadster]

Continuing the discussion on material durability and practicality, there's another critical consideration I'm hoping Tesla's factored in.

I was evangelizing the potential benefits of solar tiles to a family friend whose husband happens to be the Fire Capt. of our local station. While we were watching the unveiling video, she got particularly concerned during the durability segment comparing the impact resistance to current standards. She commented that while it's great that the tiles will be able to better handle unintentional damage from above like hail, what about times when the tiles need to intentionally be removed or damaged; e.g. in the event of roof venting during fire mitigation? She had more questions...

1. How easy will it be for firemen to remove the tiles with or without tools?
2. Can the tiles easily be cut through with traditional chainsaws when necessary?
3. Could the durability hide potential roofing structure issues like weak/hot spots?
4. How much extra time could the crews be put in danger while trying to deal with #1-3?
5. What about traction issues for the crews when the tiles get wet?

If these are tempered glass of some sort, they would be very difficult to cut or bore holes on-site, so you definitely need to know how they will handle roof penetrations for stacks and vents, as well as how they handle attic ventilation for hipped roofs that can't use gable-end vents.

Now imagine trying to cut through this stuff in Phoenix, in June, wearing full gear, with a fire burning below you, under duress...

...what do you think of having to walk on glass either during install or for repairs afterwards?

Now imagine trying to walk across this stuff in Portland, in December, in the rain, wearing full gear, with a fire burning below, under duress...

I found a 2012 quote from Fire Rescue Magazine that summed up my friend's concerns perfectly.

"The ever-changing construction industry challenges firefighters to stay on top of their game. By developing an understanding of building construction, and building construction materials, we can better determine when it’s safe to go to the roof, and develop proper tactics for safely and effectively venting various rooftop materials."

@Elon (or any SolarCity execs reading this), take note and, if you haven't already, pls open a dialog with Fire Professionals on these topics, thx.

 

[RubberToe]

Not solar roof related, but some new info concerning Panasonic panels that will be sold exclusively by Tesla...

Tesla unveils its new ‘sleek and low-profile’ exclusive solar panel made by Panasonic

 

[brucet999]

Continuing the discussion on material durability and practicality, there's another critical consideration I'm hoping Tesla's factored in.

I was evangelizing the potential benefits of solar tiles to a family friend whose husband happens to be the Fire Capt. of our local station. While we were watching the unveiling video, she got particularly concerned during the durability segment comparing the impact resistance to current standards. She commented that while it's great that the tiles will be able to better handle unintentional damage from above like hail, what about times when the tiles need to intentionally be removed or damaged; e.g. in the event of roof venting during fire mitigation? She had more questions...

1. How easy will it be for firemen to remove the tiles with or without tools?
2. Can the tiles easily be cut through with traditional chainsaws when necessary?
3. Could the durability hide potential roofing structure issues like weak/hot spots?
4. How much extra time could the crews be put in danger while trying to deal with #1-3?
5. What about traction issues for the crews when the tiles get wet?

Now imagine trying to cut through this stuff in Phoenix, in June, wearing full gear, with a fire burning below you, under duress...

Now imagine trying to walk across this stuff in Portland, in December, in the rain, wearing full gear, with a fire burning below, under duress...

I found a 2012 quote from Fire Rescue Magazine that summed up my friend's concerns perfectly.

"The ever-changing construction industry challenges firefighters to stay on top of their game. By developing an understanding of building construction, and building construction materials, we can better determine when it’s safe to go to the roof, and develop proper tactics for safely and effectively venting various rooftop materials."

@Elon (or any SolarCity execs reading this), take note and, if you haven't already, pls open a dialog with Fire Professionals on these topics, thx.

1. Solar roof tiles would be easy to pull up with fire fighters' pick-mattock-like demo tools by lifting/prying the lower edges. Without tools, there would not be enough gap to get gloved fingers under them, similar to wood or composition shingles.
2. Chainsaws would not touch them. It would require diamond saw blades (commonly available) to cut through them.
3. No more than any clay or concrete tile roof, I would imagine.
5. I would be concerned about the slipperiness of wet glass.

"…trying to walk across this stuff in Portland in December, in the rain…"; just imagine Portland, Maine with a layer of ice on glass that is being heated from below?

 

[Roadster]

Without any installation details or fire mitigation testing data/results from Tesla, there's no way we can guess at the feasibility of #1-3. If Tesla hasn't factored these things in, that's the biggest concern. I'm sure they have as it's probably compulsory for UL compliance but I'm no governance expert. And, d'oh, yeah your Portland, ME scenario's also legit!