SolarEdge does not see big jump in residential batteries

[winfield100]

I do personally want a home battery. But the reality is that, in the continental U.S., a powerwall holds about 50 cents worth of electricity.

the 50 cents of electricity (filled daily by PV) can increase in value by certain multipliers: examples in the DC area. "Snowmageddon" and "Snowpocalypse" winter storms that kinda killed the grid for days, a freak tornado in the Rockville, Maryland area (1/2 mile from service center) that knocked out electricity for a bit, a Derecho (inland hurricane) again, no elec for a few days, further out, a storm of 300 tornadoes that went from Alabama to northern Virginia in april a few years back, superstorm Sandy, etc. 50 cents of electricity can be worth a lot,eh. " {distributed} power to the people"

 

[winfield100]

.......Perhaps Hawaii and Australia could be early adopters of the self-sustaining neighborhoods, though for Hawaii and elsewhere, US laws are really poor in supporting this kind of thing.

have you seen the story on the VPP in Australia, aggregating 1,000 battery packs...

AGL invests in world’s largest battery storage virtual power plant

 

[Cosmacelf]

Does everything need to be cost justified and have a payback? Like eCar Fan, I'm getting a Powerwall because I want one.

Great, but the original point of this thread is that SolarEdge doesn't see the market getting very big, and if it isn't economic, then it isn't going to get big.

 

[nwdiver]

if it isn't economic, then it isn't going to get big.

We'll have to see... I'm excited about being able to offer the option of storage not for any 'economic' reason but for backup. It's harder to assign a ROI to the convenience of doing away with nuisance outages. Adding storage to a PV system will usually be cheaper than adding a backup generator.

 

[techmaven]

Well, I have to say that given SolarEdge's inability to get real information out about their StorEdge products, inability to get product actually available for sale, and up until recently, could only support a single PowerWall, I'm not surprised they see little demand.

 

[EinSV]

Well, I have to say that given SolarEdge's inability to get real information out about their StorEdge products, inability to get product actually available for sale, and up until recently, could only support a single PowerWall, I'm not surprised they see little demand.

Also, SolarEdge's newfound pessimism on the residential market just when its stock price was tanking due to Tesla's announcement that it was developing its own inverters is an interesting coincidence.

 

[Matias]

the 50 cents of electricity (filled daily by PV) can increase in value by certain multipliers: examples in the DC area. "Snowmageddon" and "Snowpocalypse" winter storms that kinda killed the grid for days, a freak tornado in the Rockville, Maryland area (1/2 mile from service center) that knocked out electricity for a bit, a Derecho (inland hurricane) again, no elec for a few days, further out, a storm of 300 tornadoes that went from Alabama to northern Virginia in april a few years back, superstorm Sandy, etc. 50 cents of electricity can be worth a lot,eh. " {distributed} power to the people"

Powerwall will be empty in few hours in those situations. If you want power for several days, you need generator. It is much cheaper and lasts longer even without refill. With gasoline/diesel refills it lasts forever.

 

[nwdiver]

Powerwall will be empty in few hours in those situations. If you want power for several days, you need generator.

That's generally only true for major snow storms... even then supplies of gasoline can quickly run short and there's still some sunlight to be had. Even with overcast skies I can generally get ~10kWh per day (once I get the snow off my panels). After a hurricane the weather is generally perfect... also another case where gasoline can be difficult to find but sunshine will be in great abundance.

 

[winfield100]

Powerwall will be empty in few hours in those situations. If you want power for several days, you need generator. It is much cheaper and lasts longer even without refill. With gasoline/diesel refills it lasts forever.

I point you to ?Tom Mologhney? in NJ and his electric Mini during aftermath of Superstorm Sandy
he could get elect by driving elsewhere. the pictures of long lines of folks needing fossil fuel for their vehicles and generators on this and other fora.
thats one reason why
you have done homework prior to emergencies. ?
whats critical?
your refrig uses ~1.8kWh/day,
a 7 watt LED uses 7 watts per hour x number on,
a tiny radio uses ?x watts/hr,
flat screen LED TV uses. (a lot)
think like a temporary "off-grider"
induction cooktop uses ??
perhaps resize your PV array to be a bit larger to you both refill the battery and consume the excess or a 2nd or 3rd powerwall?
(I would commend you to homepower.org for way more info)

 

[SDRick]

Currently, it will be difficult for batteries to compete with a tri-fuel 10 kw generator that can be had for $1000 or less.

 

[techmaven]

Currently, it will be difficult for batteries to compete with a tri-fuel 10 kw generator that can be had for $1000 or less.

Until it breaks. Or runs out of fuel. Or drones endlessly. Not to mention the expense of fuel if one does need to use it. Or deal with fuel additives and fuel deposits.

A PowerWall can have a function when the grid is operating. I would not choose to be on generator unless it was for testing.

 

[bonaire]

V2H - Vehicle to Home. So much more capacity.

Charged EVs | Vehicle-to-Home

 

[SDRick]

Until it breaks. Or runs out of fuel. Or drones endlessly. Not to mention the expense of fuel if one does need to use it. Or deal with fuel additives and fuel deposits.

A PowerWall can have a function when the grid is operating. I would not choose to be on generator unless it was for testing.

The generator comparison was for a emergency use reference not for running a household. The downsides of a generator are obvious but more of a red herring in this thread.

In an emergency, at least in my case, my natural gas hookup will be the first choice and probably will not run out. If it does I have LP and of course gasoline. My new Sonny boy inverter also has 2000 W available while the sun is shining.

I have lived in this house for 21 years and used my generator two or three times, they were for short periods and for the most part just to see if it really worked. Even with today's lower prices, the cost over the last 21 years to purchase and maintain a battery system would be huge for a few hours of use compared to a generator.

For nonemergency use (at least in California) a battery system makes no sense with net metering. When that changes, I will be one of the first to invest.

As mentioned several times up thread, there are other reasons to consider batteries besides return of investment. I would love to have a battery system but in my situation it would be pure luxury and a psychological boost but it would have to come at a much lower cost.

There are few folks that would spend that kind of money just because. That is why for the near-term, residential battery sales will be lackluster.

Now if Tesla would sell an adapter\software that would allow V2H, as mentioned by bonaire allowing the battery I already own in the car to run the house in an emergency, bingo! But, even with this "free 90 kw battery", my energy use and power bill would not change and I would not chose to have the car battery pack also running the house (but I would have a nice emergency backup that is even better than my generator).

 

[nwdiver]

In an emergency, at least in my case, my natural gas hookup will be the first choice and probably will not run out.

Earthquake.

 

[SDRick]

Earthquake.

Nice try with the selective editing. If you would have quoted properly and advance the discussion the quote would have looked like this,..

"my natural gas hookup will be the first choice and probably will not run out. If it does I have LP and of course gasoline. My new Sonny boy inverter also has 2000 W available while the sun is shining".

You didn't mention asteroid.

So what is your point?

 

[nwdiver]

So what is your point?

My point is that a battery backed PV system capable of operating independent of the grid offers the unique ability to retain some 'modern conveniences' in the event of a civil emergency. The Sunny boy Secure power source also offers this to a lesser extent. It's hard to safely keep enough gasoline to last more than 2 or 3 days. Generators are typically <20% efficient so best case is you get ~30kWh out of a 5 gallon can. An 8kW array will generate nearly twice that per day in southern California.

 

[SDRick]

My point is that a battery backed PV system capable of operating independent of the grid offers the unique ability to retain some 'modern conveniences' in the event of a civil emergency. The Sunny boy Secure power source also offers this to a lesser extent. It's hard to safely keep enough gasoline to last more than 2 or 3 days. Generators are typically <20% efficient so best case is you get ~30kWh out of a 5 gallon can. An 8kW array will generate nearly twice that per day in southern California.

I think everyone can pretty much agree with what you say above. Not much really new there.

In an emergency situation, nothing would be much better than being able to tap into my existing "free" 90 kW battery in the car.

 

[bxr140]

Earthquake.

Hurricane.

 

[nwdiver]

Hurricane.

Well... those typically don't have much of an effect on natural gas lines or Southern California... or solar panels... once the clouds clear

 

[SageBrush]

My point is that a battery backed PV system capable of operating independent of the grid offers the unique ability to retain some 'modern conveniences' in the event of a civil emergency. The Sunny boy Secure power source also offers this to a lesser extent. It's hard to safely keep enough gasoline to last more than 2 or 3 days. Generators are typically <20% efficient so best case is you get ~30kWh out of a 5 gallon can. An 8kW array will generate nearly twice that per day in southern California.

Using 1.8 kWh per watt*annum, I get that an 8 kW array will produce 14,440 kWh a year and average 39 kWh a day. I certainly agree though with your underlying point.