Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • The final cut of the 8th episode of the Tesla Motors Club Podcast, featuring Balazs Biro, of the prominent Hungarian EV channel Villanyautósok, is now available. You can watch it now on YouTube or listen to it on all major podcast networks.

Someone unplugged my car

Canuck

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2013
6,125
5,779
South Surrey, BC
Public L2 should merely be seen as a convenience, which is precisely how the OP used it.

Conveniencing ourselves, regardless of the effect on others, is not something I see as a virtue to be propagated. So we will agree to disagree on that point -- since it really is the crux of the argument regarding the proper use of public chargers.

I dont need to use logic, just decency and kindness.

That's the highest form of logic, at least in my view.
 
Conveniencing ourselves, regardless of the effect on others, is not something I see as a virtue to be propagated. So we will agree to disagree on that point -- since it really is the crux of the argument regarding the proper use of public chargers.
This wasn't about convenience for the OP but rather need. But your need is constrained by the rules of the charger you are using. Evidently those chargers are only allowed to be used for 2 hours at a time. Nothing has been mentioned about exceptions for overnight.

Is it really inconvenient to have to move your car after two hours? Of course. That's why people charge at home. The OP doesn't seem to have that option but that doesn't mean you can use public chargers like you would your own private one.

Even if the city hall had no time restriction, you should still plan on moving your car immediately when finished charging whether it's 3pm or 3am because it isn't your private charger.
 

Sandollars

I bleed Cardinal
Feb 19, 2018
364
389
So Cal/So UT
No one should ever unplug another man's car.

That being said,

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, plugging in a Tesla at a L2 charger is like a shark gobbling up all the tiny fish around the reef leaving nothing for the little fish to eat. 2 things happen: The little fish get pi$$ed off, and the shark is still hungry. Lose, lose.

If a Tesla needs to grab a little juice to make it home or to the nearest SC, then go for it. STAY WITH YOUR CAR! Grab JUST enough to safely get you there otherwise, leave the reef alone. It's just bad manners.

As stated above this is MY HUMBLE OPINION and words that I choose to live by.

I bought a 6 figure car that costs 7 bucks to fill up. The difference a L2 for an hour or 2 is going to make on me is a net savings of a buck or two, whereas it might be the difference of being able to use my car or not if I drove an 80 mile ranged car.

I doubt this action was directed at you per se, but to all the Tesla "sharks" he has seen eat there over time. Luckily it was just unplugged and the pinhead didn't use a fist or hammer on your aluminum body work..... I would take the message and move on.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,507
7,139
Austin, TX
And again this why pretty much all public chargers should cost to charge there. Businesses should even consider charging their employees for using their chargers. It uses solid economic theory to open up chargers to those who actually need them. And takes away the incentive to needlessly tie up a charger.
Exactly. Free changes behavior. Not in a good way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canuck and McRat

Canuck

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2013
6,125
5,779
South Surrey, BC
This wasn't about convenience for the OP but rather need.

Do we know if the OP has offered to his landlord to pay to install an outlet, by a reputable, qualified electrician, plus pay for the power? Not many landlords would refuse that since it adds value to their property. Only once he's exhausted more appropriate charging options does it change from a want to a need, at least in my view, and I'm not convinced that he has.

But your need is constrained by the rules of the charger you are using. Evidently those chargers are only allowed to be used for 2 hours at a time. Nothing has been mentioned about exceptions for overnight.

Good point.
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,642
15,404
NoVA
I dont need to use logic, just decency and kindness. I charge at home because when I bought this car I was responsible enough to ensure I had a place to reliably charge it every night.

I don't think anybody is advocating not being "decent and kind", however subjective those things may be.

Coming upon this situation with 0 background you could maybe assume that both of them NEED a charge because they are both "in transit".

But we know better because the OP admitted to being unable to charge at home, which lends to my overall tone in this thread. If he was traveling in some remote area with no SC access or the SC was just way too far to make sense... I'd be 100% with him in addition to the fact that I'm already 100% with him on someone unplugging his car. I'd happly argue till i drop dead with anyone who thinks its ok to unplug the OP for any reason and under any circumstance.

I am hung up on his charging habit and what it means for L2, other tesla owners, and other EV owners.

Habit?

The OP has said this is something like only the second time he's charged there. How is that a "habit"?
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: SW2Fiddler

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,642
15,404
NoVA
Maybe look at it this way: For some of us, the preference relates to "need" and not "want" and the "need" is usually greater with short range EVs vs. long range EVs.

As a blanket statement short range EV's will likely need to charge more often. But just the same, an EV, regardless of it's range at the top end, has just as equal a "need" when your SOC is low, and you have some distance to your next destination.

Again, if my ICE tank is empty, I need that gas pump just as much as you do regardless if I have a 40 gallon tank and you have a 12 gallon tank.


When it comes to "need" it's first come, first serve, and you can remain as long as the "need" is required and permitted by the time limit of the charger, if any.

Yup.


When it comes to "want" -- if you have a long range Tesla, or short range EV, and you don't "need" the charge but just "want" the free electrons, then in my book you're a inconsiderate arsehole regardless of the battery capacity of the vehicle you drive.

In general, I agree with not tying up a limited charging resource if you don't need it. That having been said, chargers are offered to encourage EV usage. There are many scenarios, such as workplace charging, etc... where the benefit should be equally shared by all.


Logically, that applies more to Tesla owners given the large battery pack so the "need" is less likely and the "want" is more likely.

Does that make sense logically to you?


Again see my "low state of charge" example above. We don't really know that.

What's more, there's a good dosage of personal responsibility with choosing a vehicle that meets your needs, given the overall charging that may (or may not) be available to you given the overall limited resources available.

If you expect priority for a publicly available resource equally offered to all just because you bought a lesser capable vehicle despite your needs, then that's just as much of an a-hole move as charging when you don't need to or hogging a space after your got the range you need.

Just because you didn't get a sufficient lunch prior to the flight doesn't mean you are entitled to my free pretzels.
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,642
15,404
NoVA
If a Tesla needs to grab a little juice to make it home or to the nearest SC, then go for it. STAY WITH YOUR CAR! Grab JUST enough to safely get you there otherwise, leave the reef alone. It's just bad manners.

The issue of "deservedness" aside (see my other replies), if it's 50 miles to the nearest Supercharger and you are getting a 17MPH charge rate (not on common for a 208v 30A [email protected] station), you expect folks to forgo eating, patronizing the local business, or running back up to their hotel room for a nap and sit in their car for 3+ hours just because a guy with a Leaf feels his need to reach his next destination is greater than yours?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MP3Mike
Habit?

The OP has said this is something like only the second time he's charged there. How is that a "habit"?

A few years ago a bullet made its way in my backpack and was detected when I went to board an airplane and the xray machine went crazy. I was cited (dropped in court, first offense, silly mistake blah blah).

The FBI special agent joint terrorism task force called me the next day and said: "Lets not have this happen again, two is a pattern".

I'll never forget that ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Galve2000

Canuck

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2013
6,125
5,779
South Surrey, BC
If you expect priority for a publicly available resource equally offered to all just because you bought a lesser capable vehicle despite your needs, then that's just as much of an a-hole move as charging when you don't need to or hogging a space after your got the range you need. Just because you didn't get a sufficient lunch prior to the flight doesn't mean you are entitled to my free pretzels.

Sorry, but nothing I said can be stretched into this nonsense about "lesser" vehicles, being "entitled", or leaching off of anyone. Please don't turn this debate into class warfare. It's also ironic that you label me with your freeloader comments, when I said the exact opposite in that I wished everyone would pay since that would keep the freeloaders away:

In any event, once they start to charge for these EVSE spots, as they promised to do last year, a lot of the nonsense of "anything to save a buck" will stop. That can't come soon enough for me.
City of Vancouver Approves Fees at EV Charging Stations - Plug In BC

Yet you try to turn me into a supporter of a freeloader who's eating your pretzels? -- give me a break.

Remember I have a Tesla and a Leaf (and soon to be two Teslas). My daughters mainly drive our Leaf, and I drive the Tesla. Maybe it's because of that, that I am very reluctant to use an open free charger without at least leaving a note. I know how it affects all those little peons, as you seem to view them, from your high in the sky pretzel eating perch.
 
Last edited:

McRat

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2016
5,771
6,077
LA
This debate was settled a long time ago by Tesla Owners oddly enough. They complained to Elon Musk that people were leaving their fully charged cars sitting at Superchargers, blocking them from being used by others. It was agreed that Superchargers aren't for overnight parking and a new policy was mandated.

I just looked at ChargePoint's app, and to an extent, they have a little blame for this. Everybody seems to know it's a 2hr limit except the ChargePoint app, so I guess it's on a sign or the LCD. However, the CP app does tell you when somebody is finished charging.

One car was unplugged today at 2:10pm, and the same user was also unplugged on 5/2. So it seems unplugging people is common there.
But it was either a Chevrolet Volt or a Ford Fusion Energi that was unplugged not a Fiat 500e.
 

Sandollars

I bleed Cardinal
Feb 19, 2018
364
389
So Cal/So UT
The issue of "deservedness" aside (see my other replies), if it's 50 miles to the nearest Supercharger and you are getting a 17MPH charge rate (not on common for a 208v 30A [email protected] station), you expect folks to forgo eating, patronizing the local business, or running back up to their hotel room for a nap and sit in their car for 3+ hours just because a guy with a Leaf feels his need to reach his next destination is greater than yours?


Seriously? With a range of 250+ miles, it would take some unbelievably poor planning on your part to find yourself in the scenario you describe above.

I dare say that if you are rolling into the big city on ZERO, 50 miles from a proper charger for your car then it makes you no better than the Leaf owner that should only drive their car around town.

Alas, if you find yourself in this unlikely scenario with your 85kw battery, then you SHOULD feel righteous about putting in enough to get you to the SC (as I said before) that you should have stopped at earlier. By all means enjoy the town and have some dinner. THIS would be a legitimate reason to use a L2 for an extended amount of time.
 
I'll say it again: Put your phone number in a conspicuous place (like inside the charge flap? On the dash on a big sheet of paper?) so someone can call if they need a charge and you are nowhere visible. How can that be a problem? If I was at dinner and someone needed a charge, I could check my app, see if I needed more, tell him I'd be out to unplug in 5 minutes or less, etc. No hard feelings.

But no. We have to feel entitled, no discussion. Someone who needs charge wants to know if they can get enough to get home, and can they take 5 minutes. And why in the world is a Tesla needing to use a public L2 charger??!! Might just as well have bought a Leaf.

Again, phone number in a conspicuous place. Of course, if they call and this is all taken care of with understanding, it would mean there would be no "I GOT UNPLUGGED" thread.

I don't know of ANYBODY other than me that puts a phone number on the dash when I'm using public slow charging. Does anybody?? My phone number is already written on the paper, in the glove box. I've used it twice.
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,642
15,404
NoVA
Sorry, but nothing I said can be stretched into this nonsense about "lesser" vehicles, being "entitled", or leaching off of anyone. Please don't turn this debate into class warfare.

I'll ask you do not twist my words by misquoting me in an attempt to make this an issue of "class warfare".

I said, "... a lesser capable vehicle ..." in direct response to your post discussing " ...short range EVs vs. long range EVs...".

Clearly you were discussing capability, and I explicitly replied regarding capability. "Class" or price has nothing to do with my comments. I could care less if the scenario involves a Bolt instead of a Tesla. So please drop that.


It's also ironic that you label me with your freeloader comments, when I said the exact opposite in that I wished everyone would pay since that would keep the freeloaders away:

Yet you try to turn me into a supporter of a freeloader who's eating your pretzels? -- give me a break.

No analogy is perfect. But entitlement can take the form of assuming priority just as much as it can be assuming "deservedness".

Someone feeling they have "more" right to an equally offered resource just because they might have some specific personal requirement is indeed feeling entitled.

Maybe this analogy will suit you better: just because you didn't buy breakfast and are hungrier are you entitled to cut the line at the free buffet?

Remember I have a Tesla and a Leaf (and soon to be two Teslas). My daughters mainly drive our Leaf, and I drive the Tesla. Maybe it's because of that, that I am very reluctant to use an open free charger without at least leaving a note. I know how it affects all those little peons, as you seem to view them, from your high in the sky pretzel eating perch.

Your assumptions that you post here are telling. I don't use the free chargers at the local Whole Foods despite the prime parking spaces because I don't need to, and would rather leave them for those that do. Same with the local movie theater. And ditto for the HPWC spots in the Tesla Gallery reserved parking spots at the local mall (covenant to the entrance too).

I also move my car at work when I have sufficient charge to get home so others have the 50A spot. And here's the copy of the laminated placard I made for the times when I may be getting a convenience charge but don't want to prevent others who may need it:
chargeplaccard_xm.JPG


So, if you are done casting aspersions my way based on ignorance, perhaps you'll stop and recognize that just as you are making invalid assumptions about my views, it may be just as invalid to cast judgment on somebody's else's charing need in a given situation based solely on the model car they drive.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: SW2Fiddler

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,642
15,404
NoVA
A few years ago a bullet made its way in my backpack and was detected when I went to board an airplane and the xray machine went crazy. I was cited (dropped in court, first offense, silly mistake blah blah).

The FBI special agent joint terrorism task force called me the next day and said: "Lets not have this happen again, two is a pattern".

I'll never forget that ;)
I think you made my point better than I could have.
 

scaesare

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2013
8,642
15,404
NoVA
Seriously? With a range of 250+ miles, it would take some unbelievably poor planning on your part to find yourself in the scenario you describe above.

I don't think you've thought this through. My 2013 S85 gets right about 257 miles on 100% SOC. Supercharging is most time effective up to about the 80% point. That's a bit over 200 miles. And there are 60's and 75's out there that will get less.

There are lots of highways coming off the supercharger-laden interstates and main highways. All it takes is a road trip where you need to leave the interstate and drive smaller highways for some distance to need to spend some L2 time in many areas. There are several routes to destinations here in the Mid Atlantic that way, despite the fact that the Supercharger infrastructure has built up nicely here.

Or it could be an L2 at destination you are using. Or you may be dealing with elevation, weather, or temp. Cold down here can cut range by 30-40% easily. It's not too hard to need some charge when your effective range is 140 miles.

I dare say that if you are rolling into the big city on ZERO, 50 miles from a proper charger for your car then it makes you no better than the Leaf owner that should only drive their car around town.

L2's aren't "proper" for a car despite being an EV? Interesting perspective. And for many of the scenarios I've mentioned above, that may be the best resource an EV owner has.

As for "should", nobody (at least not me) is saying Leaf owners "should" not drive anywhere they want. Just don't expect that you automatically are entitled priority to a shared charger. I don't with my EV.

Alas, if you find yourself in this unlikely scenario with your 85kw battery, then you SHOULD feel righteous about putting in enough to get you to the SC (as I said before) that you should have stopped at earlier. By all means enjoy the town and have some dinner. THIS would be a legitimate reason to use a L2 for an extended amount of time.

Again with the "unlikely scenario". I suspect you don't travel as widely as some of us do.

And despite your highly emphasized point, there are plenty of non-corner-case scenarios where there is no supercharger to stop at earlier to fulfill that need. "Righteousness" has nothing to do with it, other than some folks apparently making this an emotional discussion rather than a logical one.
 
I think you made my point better than I could have.

Maybe? Only you can know that I guess.

We can just call it at 8 pages. I think that anyone who owns an EV has an obligation to secure personal charging methods, home, parents, friends, whatever. If you're going to leave your car overnight at any charging station because you lack the means to charge your car, you're in the wrong... not sure how anyone can really defend that.
 

Doanster1

Active Member
Feb 14, 2018
1,169
617
Oregon
Maybe? Only you can know that I guess.

We can just call it at 8 pages. I think that anyone who owns an EV has an obligation to secure personal charging methods, home, parents, friends, whatever. If you're going to leave your car overnight at any charging station because you lack the means to charge your car, you're in the wrong... not sure how anyone can really defend that.
Oh oh... “lack the means” could be interpreted many ways so I’ll leave that be.
Remember, we all agree that penny-pinchers who don’t *want* to charge at home in-lieu of free options (public L2 and SuC) are bad.
@Astraviel would love to charge at home... if he could. Instead of using this particular station as his home/free station, he charges at work. Again, he used this particular station due to a specific need so it’s quite easy to defend him, without even bringing up Orange Jacket’s misdeed. You think that guy was going to plug in and charge for an hour or two and then move his car at 4am?!?!
As I stated early on, people that live in the heart of downtown areas where the building is not yet equipped with L2 stations probably do have to jockey for position each night. Part of the decision to live there and own an EV. OP chooses normally to charge at work probably so that he doesn’t have to jockey when he gets home.
I so wish Orange Jacket would make an appearance here though!!! First words out of his mouth should be: “Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned.” Then I’ll listen to the rest. :D
Now we can call it 8-pages...
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top