SpaceX Internet Satellite Network: Starlink

[mongo]

I'd expect the steering to operate well beyond tens of kHz. It should be able to update aiming at least within a few transmission time slices, ideally after every time it receives (and that can include anyone else near enough for the satellite's steered beam to cover it) it can fine tune the aiming. Keep in mind it will be keeping in touch with two or more satellites most of the time to perform seamless handoff as the satellites fly by, so it already must be able to quickly steer between satellites which might not even be on the same orbital plane but completely perpendicular. All this steering is digital and not mechanical, so the only limitation is how fast they want the steering algorithm to update, and thus how much CPU power they're willing to give it. It's not a super demanding task, relative to the amount of data that can flow through the link.

And even if you have trouble with a dinghy on the open ocean, there's no need to nit pick between "boat" and "ship". Any floating vessel big enough to have a use for starlink (versus just having a Iridium sat phone for emergency rescue situations) should be fine. These are not your grandfather's satellite dishes, so to speak. There is nothing to move, nothing to aim, just simply digitally controlled beam steering. You don't even have to be particularly careful about what angle you attach the terminal at, it doesn't need to be on a flat surface, just have a reasonable view of the sky, and it will handle the rest.

The 10s of kHz was limited by the off the shelf $5 hobby gyro/accelerometer I looked up.

 

[bxr140]

Will future Tesla cars be equipped with those "pizza satellite dish" (maybe hidden in the hood) to be used for internet connection instead of the SIM cards they are using now?

The technical answer is yes. There's no major roadblock with mounting the antenna on a car, and especially a Tesla. Really its a pretty trivial matter of finding volume under one of the horizontal-is surfaces, like the hood, roof, or trunk lid, and of course making that surface RF transparent. A road going (two dimensional) vehicle is in fact the most ideal mobile installation--the vibrations and bumps and stuff are insignificant relative to a constellation of orbiting satellites. That's one of the reasons SpaceX decided to test their antenna on an aircraft that sees significant angular motion relative to "pointing up", as that's pretty much the worst case for a mobile installation.

The big issue is cost. Nobody knows what a Starlink terminal will cost and nobody knows what the Starlink service will cost, but it is most probable that--especially for the net 4-6 years--Starlink simply won't be affordable for most individual users.

Seriously, if the networking execs aren't scared out of their wits, they're not paying attention.

They're about as scared as Tesla is of VW/Audi. That is to say, VW is quite obviously poised to become a strong player in the EV market. BUT...they really don't have anything yet other than years of press releases and a few token charging stations, and as long as Tesla keeps innovating it will be a long time before VW actually catches up and surpasses Tesla.

Of course, the flip side to your suggestion that 'networking execs' be scared applies to SpaceX being scared of them. There is zero chance that the establishment is going to stand still and let Starlink take over the world, so....what technology (and probably underhanded methods) do those execs have to strike back at SpaceX?

 

[SageBrush]

Per
Musk says Starlink “economically viable” with around 1,000 satellites - SpaceNews.com

Each launch of 60 sats adds about 1 Tbit/sec of capacity. It sounds like a lot but I lack context of typical daily peak transfer rates using the terrestrial networks.

Anyone ?

 

[SageBrush]

This site
The internet has developed its own prime time, and it’s coming for TV
estimated peak world traffic at 2.5 Pbit/sec in 2020, up from ~ 2 Pbit/sec nowadays.

Hmmm. Then 1% of the market requires at least 25 Tbit of capacity and about 25 launches = 1500 sats.
The eventual goal of 12,000 sats implies 8% of 2020 market coverage

 

[EVCollies]

Yes (got that very wrong in my first response)

Twitter



Satmap

The Satmap shows 64 Starlinks, what are the other two?

 

[Lloyd]

Previously launched.

 

[mongo]

The Satmap shows 64 Starlinks, what are the other two?

From the recent launch there are 60 satellites and 4 pieces of debris. Tintin A & B are listed separately.

 

[ecarfan]

From the recent launch there are 60 satellites and 4 pieces of debris.

There are four pieces of SpaceX “debris” in LEO from the recent launch? Please clarify. That sounds alarming.

 

[dhanson865]

There are four pieces of SpaceX “debris” in LEO from the recent launch? Please clarify. That sounds alarming.

anything that isn't "payload" is "debris" that can be parts of the payload adapter or brackets or even the 2nd stage of the rocket.

Perfectly normal and expected.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

There are four pieces of SpaceX “debris” in LEO from the recent launch? Please clarify. That sounds alarming.

There's been theorizing elsewhere on the internet (based on the few shots of the satellites we have) that the stack of satellites was held together with tension as they appear to have stacking and interlocking rings around the edges. It would have taken 4 devices to apply the hold down force, which when removed would have released the satellites to drift away. Could be bars or straps of some kind, we don't know, but that's most likely what the debris is. A further theory is that the intent was to have it stay attached to the 2nd stage (since SpaceX has talked about minimizing debris they put into orbit) but whatever primary release mechanism didn't work so they had to release the hold downs entirely.

 

[bxr140]

Very adjacent to the topic, for those who don’t watch Hasan Minhaj on Netflix (if you don’t you should check it out), his latest episode goes into the ugly side of Big ISPs in the US and how some places are exploring municipal broadband.

In context of starlink, I could see those broadband deserts potentially falling into the addressable market for satellite internet.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Very adjacent to the topic, for those who don’t watch Hasan Minhaj on Netflix (if you don’t you should check it out), his latest episode goes into the ugly side of Big ISPs in the US and how some places are exploring municipal broadband.

In context of starlink, I could see those broadband deserts potentially falling into the addressable market for satellite internet.

There are tons of areas in the US that need Starlink. I predict that when they start selling the service, they will have a shortage of receiver antennas.

 

[Cosmacelf]

There are tons of areas in the US that need Starlink. I predict that when they start selling the service, they will have a shortage of receiver antennas.

Oh, and don't think that this will provide competition for your $70/month gig service you get in a city. It won't. It'll be more like $199/month plus the cost of the antenna. But for some people, this will be worth it.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Oh, and don't think that this will provide competition for your $70/month gig service you get in a city. It won't. It'll be more like $199/month plus the cost of the antenna. But for some people, this will be worth it.

I'll consider them done when Tristan da Cunha gets fast Internet.

 

[bxr140]

There are tons of areas in the US that need Starlink.

Perhaps. The actual US population without access to current broadband through existing terrestrial or satellite services is pretty low, and while ever increasing, the demand for significantly higher speeds than what legacy solutions can provide (ostensibly the main advantage of starlink) is difficult to nail down. Couple that with a practical rollout of many years (during which terrestrial and GEOsat services will also improve) and it all starts to get pretty fuzzy about what the true needs are.

I predict that when they start selling the service, they will have a shortage of receiver antennas.

That's only if SpaceX proves terrible at aligning demand of a pretty basic piece of consumer electronics with what one would hope is a very self-evident supply of constellation capacity as they launch more and more units. That said, given Tesla's past performance on aligning supercharger supply and demand, I'd say you might be on to something.

Oh, and don't think that this will provide competition for your $70/month gig service you get in a city. It won't.

Yep, that's been my staunch position on satellite internet since long before Starlink came around. It will never make sense for a *majority of people that live in population dense areas*, because physics will always side with terrestrial solutions for those people.

The asterisk, for no other reason than I didn't realize it was the case, is that the US markets that are exploring alternate solutions (like municipal broadband) as a result of being purposely underserved by Big ISP may have the ability to completely side-step those big corporations once Starlink comes online.

 

[doghousePVD]

Oh, and don't think that this will provide competition for your $70/month gig service you get in a city. It won't. It'll be more like $199/month plus the cost of the antenna. But for some people, this will be worth it.

As a very rural customer, I would be ecstatic to pay $199 (plus expensive antenna) for reliable gigabit speeds. However, Starlink is definitely NOT a solution for urban dwellers. Starlink cannot support a dense user population, just the opposite of fiber characteristics.

My guess 80 to 90% of the USA by area does not have access to fiber connections, and Starlink will have many enthusiastic customers. I suspect we will see lots of Starlink WISPs (WIreless Internet Service Providers) pop up in small towns that will get a single Starlink and distribute to 10 to 100+ local customers.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I suspect we will see lots of Starlink WISPs (WIreless Internet Service Providers) pop up in small towns that will get a single Starlink and distribute to 10 to 100+ local customers.

I wondered about that myself. If I were running Starlink, I wouldn’t sell to WISPs. Just have those end user customers buy direct from Starlink.

 

[bxr140]

If I were running Starlink, I wouldn’t sell to WISPs. Just have those end user customers buy direct from Starlink.

One of the performance factors of the BFNs used on starlink (and all the other LEO constellations, and the newer GEO internet satellites that are going away from the relative inflexibility of fixed beams) is number of users. As noted elsewhere, I'm not a dee-bee kind of guy so I concede that SpaceX may have solved the problem my feeble brain cannot fathom and have determined they can easily accommodate [essentially] unlimited users. But...such witchcraft not withstanding, I would imagine a single WISP terminal serving a hundred users ~near its capacity is going to be more attractive to spaceX from a system performance perspective than a hundred terminals humming at an equivalent ~1% capacity, especially if they're planning to operate Starlink anywhere near full capacity. I think the additional revenue from the 100 slow-package terminals (compared to one big terminal with the fully loaded package) is going to be a wash when you factor in the additional overhead that goes along with 99 more accounts.

From bxr's bag of random analogies: Most companies look toward premium services for profit. Big airlines make bank on tolerable class fares, loyalty, etc, compared to bargain cattle class tickets. Cable/internet providers make bank on upselling channel/data packages, not the people who get the basic offerings.

 

[doghousePVD]

I wondered about that myself. If I were running Starlink, I wouldn’t sell to WISPs. Just have those end user customers buy direct from Starlink.

While many on these fora want fast, many in rural areas want cheap. If your $199 is right, a lot of folks would want to get cheap at $50. and forfeit speed.

 

[jerry33]

While many on these fora want fast, many in rural areas want cheap. If your $199 is right, a lot of folks would want to get cheap at $50. and forfeit speed.

$199 would be less than I pay now.