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SpaceX Starship - Integrated Flight Test #2 - Starbase TX - Including Post Launch Dissection
- Thread starter Grendal
- Start date
But of course that insane stunt did not start at orbital velocity.
That's right. I need to wash off a lot of speed while in the upper atmosphere so my feet don't get too hot on the way in.
dhanson865
Well-Known Member
What, you mean I can't just Mark Whatny my glove to get rid of enough speed? /s
Here you go:
More practically:
Then there's this actual concept for this situation:
Naturally, it would be given unmanned testing first to ensure that anyone who tried it would be fine. The inflatable (LOFTID) has already been tested, though I don't know what the conditions are like in the interior. I do know that masses just over 1 ton, inflates to a diameter of 6 meters and hits 9g during reentry (no idea how long, but you'd be lying down). It handles the heat and deceleration, then floats in the ocean when you land. Then it can be use as a bouncy house at the after party in Hawaii.
I don't believe LOFTID has its own deorbit burn hardware, however. With some kind of thrusters, the resulting package would probably be something rather bulkier than Bruce McCandless' MMU backpack. Call it 1.5 tons per astronaut. A really heavy parachute.
It's not as ideal as landing in something like Dream Chaser, but it'll get you down with a lot less drama than Sandra Bullock in Gravity.
Naturally, it would be given unmanned testing first to ensure that anyone who tried it would be fine. The inflatable (LOFTID) has already been tested, though I don't know what the conditions are like in the interior. I do know that masses just over 1 ton, inflates to a diameter of 6 meters and hits 9g during reentry (no idea how long, but you'd be lying down). It handles the heat and deceleration, then floats in the ocean when you land. Then it can be use as a bouncy house at the after party in Hawaii.
I don't believe LOFTID has its own deorbit burn hardware, however. With some kind of thrusters, the resulting package would probably be something rather bulkier than Bruce McCandless' MMU backpack. Call it 1.5 tons per astronaut. A really heavy parachute.
It's not as ideal as landing in something like Dream Chaser, but it'll get you down with a lot less drama than Sandra Bullock in Gravity.
Lol, yeah, I'd assume they'd at least test on a sack of potatoes or something before dropping a human off in one...
Nonetheless, it would be a stimulating experience to be the guy trying it for the first time.
It would be awesome to be able to generate a plasma in one, but rather doubt the masses involved would do it...
The Heat is On! NASA’s “Flawless” Heat Shield Demo Passes the Test - NASA
The Low-Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator (LOFTID) launched on Nov. 10, 2022, aboard a United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V rocket and
www.nasa.gov
There are some short video clips in that article. Pretty academic, but interesting.
I assume that pretty much anything that enters Earth's atmosphere at those speeds and stays intact will experience a bow shock and produce a plasma.
Follow on to the discussion of the difficulty with keeping tiles attached after seeing the number missing in the WB-57 footage... I had missed this a while back:
In addition to mechanical attachment rather than glue, it would seem that smaller tiles would be subject to less stress from ship flex, and that the overall surface-area-to-pin ratio would be better...
In addition to mechanical attachment rather than glue, it would seem that smaller tiles would be subject to less stress from ship flex, and that the overall surface-area-to-pin ratio would be better...
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(replying to myself)
So this says it was NASA invoking the right to redact.. I wonder if at the behest of SpaceX as the "owner"?
Certainly. SpaceX is the owner of the "commercial or financial information" that is being protected.
CSI Starbase's 80 minute examination of the booster failure.
I found the chapter called "Fuel Slosh Intro" the most interesting. It includes a water simulation to show what might have happened to the LOX during staging. They also mention that the LOX baffles have been greatly reinforced on Booster 10, making me wonder if they were damaged from the aggressive sloshing. They draw no conclusions and are content to describe some possible failure modes.
One thing that annoyed me was talking about the autogenous pressurization system using 5 bar of pressure to help keep the liquids seated in the tanks.
Edit: I forgot to mention that they estimate the heat shield part of the hot staging ring is 6-12mm thick because although it is welded from below, no weld discoloration can be seen on the top. It's too thick for that.
I found the chapter called "Fuel Slosh Intro" the most interesting. It includes a water simulation to show what might have happened to the LOX during staging. They also mention that the LOX baffles have been greatly reinforced on Booster 10, making me wonder if they were damaged from the aggressive sloshing. They draw no conclusions and are content to describe some possible failure modes.
One thing that annoyed me was talking about the autogenous pressurization system using 5 bar of pressure to help keep the liquids seated in the tanks.
Edit: I forgot to mention that they estimate the heat shield part of the hot staging ring is 6-12mm thick because although it is welded from below, no weld discoloration can be seen on the top. It's too thick for that.
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That is 5 times sea level atmospheric pressure on Earth. I’m not a rocket scientist, but is that much pressure needed to keep the propellants at the bottom of the tanks when Starship is in boost phase?
Does high gas-phase hydrostatic pressure do ANYTHING to keep liquids still?
[I am assuming that this is a gad phase above a liquid phase, not separate containers era, a distensible bladder, oroother mechanism}
I would have thought water sloshing at 1 atm will still slush at 5 atm?
What am I missing?
[I am assuming that this is a gad phase above a liquid phase, not separate containers era, a distensible bladder, oroother mechanism}
I would have thought water sloshing at 1 atm will still slush at 5 atm?
What am I missing?
Nothing. High pressure doesn't decide where the liquid in the tank goes because the entire tank is in equilibrium. The autogenous pressurization system exists to ensure that seated propellants are forced through the propellant lines and to the engines. The pressure outside the engines is either 1 bar or lower, so with 5 bar pushing (once the valves are open), the propellants will move.
The other thing that the high pressure provides is structural integrity for the vehicle. I have no idea which is the dominant factor.
Pressure is also important to impart the needed acceleration to the fluid during flow rate increases and avoid cavitation. Vacuum has a lower limit, positive pressure can be much much higher.
iIt was this phrase that had me confused.
Gotcha , @mongo and @ JB47394: The pressure doesn't stop the slosh, but it drives whatever propellant overlies the tank exits THROUGH them to the engines. And pretty fast, apparently!
I botted this and it turns out that a 5 bar pressure differential will move liquid oxygen at about 30 m/s, which is 67 mph or 108 km/h. That's ignoring the additional velocity that would come from gravity or from the rocket accelerating. It also ignores complexities such as surface tension, turbulence, and so on.
To get a sense of 5 bar of pressure, two-liter soda bottles apparently sit at around 3.5 bar, and they burst at around 10 bar.
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