SR+ vs LR RWD. How much more pain on a long trip?

[ewoodrick]

Yep, the differences are no where near as big as people expect. And for that matter, charging itself doesn't have to be a delay on a trip. Just a little bit of planning can easily allow a 500 mile trip require 0 time for charging. As long as you schedule the meal at a Supercharger, and maybe a few stretch breaks, it is pretty easy to go the distance as fast as an ICE would take you.
I just took 4 500 mile trips in the last 2 weeks and the total amount allocated to specifically charging was probably an hour. And that was only because we didn't have much flexibility due to schedule. If I could have left an hour or two earlier, it would have been close to 0.

As with EV ownership, this is all about range anxiety. I've been driving a 88 mile Leaf for over 3 years and now a LR RWD 3 for a year. Before I leave on a long trip, I just check what my options are, but that's about it. I use the car's Nav, but I often deviate from it's suggestions.

Sure, the SR range is a little less, that means that you may have to charge a little more. BUT, how many days in a year do you drive more than 200 miles? Two, Four, possibly even 6? It is quite seldom and even if you put a value of your time at $200/hr, it will be hard to justify the LR.

 

[11thIndian]

@bpjod

Thanks for the well thought out info. The new Tigan’s are much closer to a Tourag since the body style change, and the Tourag has been replaced by the massive Atlas. We’re up skiing every other week in the winter, and like you we have a Box on the roof for as much stuff as we can get in there. The back seat has the kid and his stuff and anything we can’t fit in the box. The rear is for the 75lb sheepdog.

I think the Model Y might have been an ok surrogate for the old Tiguan, or a CRV or other compact SUV. But I’m never gonna sell my wife on a taller, modestly larger Model 3 to replace it. Especially with the steeply slopped back window making it tough for the dog to fit back there. I would love for Tesla to have released a mid-sided SUV like they kept selling it, but it really is a crossover.

My wife loves her Tiguan, so I think I’m stuck with it for at least a few years before a good EV replacement is released.

I think this is why I keep having to justify the extra cost of the LR RWD. This is really going to be the commuter car. The run to the store car. The drive the kid to karate car. As person above says, if you need more range and have to stop to charge a couple days out of the year, is that worth the 7K? I’m still very tempted for all the reasons LR people listed above- Range, charging speed, sound, navigation...

Thanks everyone for the sounding board. The responses are very helpful.

 

[eustachio]

Fwiw, I was having the same debate, but the buffer of extra range makes sense for us. Even where we're just taking a casual drive at the weekend, we easily rack up 200 miles or more. I like the convenience of doing that all on a single charge.

Went back and forth on this for about a month, but seems like range trumps everything, so that's what we're opting for.

 

[MXWing]

To be frank, Rivian, VW ID etc is all VAPORWARE.

Not a single one of them have been sold. In Rivians case they have not sold a single vehicle of any kind.

Now as far as math goes - my calculus is a little different than other people.

I use holding period in my decision making.

The Y is better than the 3 in nearly all situations.

I’d throw the bulk of my money at that but the Y doesn’t exist at the moment.

Not driving a Tesla is not acceptable either for the next two years so my matrix would be as follows.

If buying a 3 now eliminates the Y option aka long holding period - get the 3LR or 3LRD.

If the Y is the eventual choice, live with the 3SR now and minimize your depreciation costs.

We have two Model 3s in the family. The drive forever 3P and the short term rental 3SR.

 

[RedModel3]

Buy a used Leaf or Chevy Volt until the Y comes out.

 

[TomServo]

Here's a quote from Big Daddy Don Garlits about Horse Power from the golden days of drag racing -

If some is GOOD and MORE is BETTER than TOO MUCH is just right.

We can update that to today's EV's and just replace Horse Power with Range.

 

[bogich]

I was in the exact same situation back in March. My wife loves her Atlas, we have 6y/72k miles warranty there. I will be replacing it once a better large EV comes on the market and it looks like there will be a few in the coming years.

Here are my (a bit more than) 2c.
First Tesla M3 SR+ road trip

I'm happy that I picked the SR+ this time. Any yes, I have better thing to do with $7k or $10k, than having them sit in an unused part of a battery pack. Money was not an issue to get LR, but was a stretch to get an X!

 

[BenR]

For me, the biggest advantage of LR vs SR is the flexibility to choose WHICH SC to stop at, vs. basically having to stop at all of them.

Many SCs are great - easy to access, uncrowded, and at places you might want to stop anyway. And then you have some that are out-of-the-way through heavy downtown traffic, sometimes crowded, and not-at-all-pleasant to be at. (Chattanooga Airport, looking at you here. ) You'll learn VERY quickly which are which once you start road-tripping in a Tesla, and if you have the LR, you can usually find a way to work around the not-so-pleasant ones.

 

[misticjeff]

My use case:
Model 3 SR+
I live in Las Vegas. I've taken one (1) road trip out of town in the last 4yrs (to Los Angeles). The SR+ is PERFECT for city commuting and the occasional L.A. excursion.
For me it would be inconceivable to spend an additional $10k for another motor and 70mi of range.
I'm not a fan of long range driving so once I'm faced with anything beyond 4-5hrs I'm flying anyways.

 

[elf9]

M3 LR RWD here ...

Work-commute is 217 miles round trip, four days a week ... long range daily commutes are not uncommon on the west coast ...

 

[TJtv]

I'm surprised to see that there is ANY difference between the SR and the SR+. Do you know why that is the case? Generally speaking, charging beyond the 220 mile mark is very inefficient, and would rarely be worthwhile.

 

[davewill]

I'm surprised to see that there is ANY difference between the SR and the SR+. Do you know why that is the case? Generally speaking, charging beyond the 220 mile mark is very inefficient, and would rarely be worthwhile.

I think ABRP is assuming you will only charge the SR to 80-90%, so you get shorter legs. I ran a couple of trips to New York from San Diego, and the highest SR+ departing charge level was 85%, which says to me that an SR should be able to follow the same route plan. You would have to charge to 96% or so at that stop, but it shouldn't be any harder on the battery or longer to do than the SR+. When run with the SR it added that same roughly 1.5hrs and a bunch of shorter hops that the OP saw.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Much of this is about your and your family’s personality. If you are a family of Golden retrievers and life is always good, even in a parking lot when it either 90 or 9 outside and whatever else goes with those extremes, then get SR+ and roll with it.

I wish I was a Golden, but I’m not. Hate to say it, but I’m more like a nervous Chihuahua and the family is similar and we hate pain and drama, so the bigger battery lessens that anxiety a lot.

There will eventually be a day when you are short on time, family in tow, and you’ll need an extra 20 - 30 miles to get to a destination, or get to dinner without worry, or have to cut and run to charge before achieving either of those. Those are the times when a few thousand dollars don’t mean much.

Worse example of this for me was with family of four coming back from Joshua Tree National monument at end of the Thanksgiving Weekend heading to Los Angeles. The math looked good to get home without stopping, and it’s about 4,000 feet downgrade between Joshua Tree and the desert floor, so all regen down the hill. Woohoo! But then as we got closer to the 10 freeway that would get us home, we saw it. A line of brake lights as far as you could see but I thought no worries, Tesla’s do great going slow, but this was not slow, this was stop and go, and once at the 10 we had to start going back up hill a bit and it was after dark and temps in the 40’s. We all had fleece, not parkas, being that we are Southern Californians and I saw my safety margin being cut into being in cold stop and go traffic, and we had gone about 2 miles. So I had to switch plans to stop at the Cabazon Supercharger, only 9 or so miles ahead. That took another hour in holiday traffic and we got there with less than 75 miles of range left (home was about 85 miles). Wife and kids got out at McDonalds while I waited for a spot to charge for 30 minutes, then I had to charge for about 90 minutes (chargers slow because all full). We wandered around the outlet stores and bought jackets to kill time and be prepared for the ride home. I think we ended up home after midnight pretty tired and angry. Sure, epic traffic happens, but the anxiety about charging made it so much worse, and I promised myself to either always get the longest range EV or take the ICE.

I’ll never know if an extra 30 miles of charge would have changed much, but I would have paid thousands on the spot to know then. At least I would have options.

 

[bogich]

@Camera-Cruiser
As seen, I defend the SR+ case, but would definitely agree with you if I only had a single Electric Vehicle for all my needs - then I'd go for the longer range option(at least until they build half as many SC as there are Gas stations - currently Europe is getting there with CCS).

 

[Birdman325]

Leaving economics aside, I think of it the way I used to think about which iPhone to get - 16GB or 32GB. While I may "never" need 32GB, as soon as you need 17GB, you will wish you got the bigger one. (Of course that ship has long since sailed and now I have 128GB, but that is not the point of the story.)

 

[ChadS]

As some here have already noted, a bigger battery buys you more than just x fewer hours charging. HERE was my attempt to list several of the advantages together.

 

[TJtv]

As some here have already noted, a bigger battery buys you more than just x fewer hours charging. HERE was my attempt to list several of the advantages together.

All of those advantages are true when you're actually buying a physically larger battery pack. Almost none of those things are true when you're comparing a full-size battery pack(SR+) to the software-locked version of that same battery pack(SR).

 

[JTIRL]

Leaving economics aside, I think of it the way I used to think about which iPhone to get - 16GB or 32GB. While I may "never" need 32GB, as soon as you need 17GB, you will wish you got the bigger one.

This is true, but also classic FOMO and range anxiety. It's also the reason why people justify pickup purchases for the 1 or 2 times a year when they need it. Having said that, I'm with a lot of other people and undecided so this thread is great. Leaning to SR/+

 

[hey.stephen]

I'm still waiting on paperwork before I can trade in my current car for a Model 3.

In a "money not an issue" scenario of course I'd go for long range. But my family wants to travel, and since the Model Y doesn't look like it's going to be the replacement for our Tiguan I thought it would, I've decided to get a Model 3 as our local commuter until a good replacement does present itself (Rivan RS1 or VW I.D. BUZZ are possibilities).

That being the case I've had it in my mind to go with the SR+; the 240mi, even with the general range reductions applied (charge to 90%, heating/AC, etc) will be plenty for my drive to work (8mi each direction). And even short trips to Monterey, Napa, or Tahoe from the Bay Are will need no to 1 charging stop.

But of course the allure of long range is always nagging at me. So I decided to use A Better Route Planner to do an experiment. Next Summer I may decide to drive back home to Ontario for a couple of weeks. How much more inconvenient is it to do this trip in a SR+ vs a LR RWD. Bay Area CA to Hamilton ON is 2647mi.

In the end I ran the numbers for the whole gambit of vehicles just to see what the spread looks like.

SR
24 Stops • Charge Time 11:24 • Trip Time 52:46

SR+
23 Stops • Charge Time 9:54 • Trip Time 51:03

MR RWD
21 Stops • Charge Time 8:17 • Trip Time 49:08

LR AWD 19”
20 Stops • Charge Time 7:58 • Trip Time 48:29

LR RWD 19”
19 Stops • Charge Time 7:38 • Trip Time 47:57

LR RWD 18” Aero
19 Stops • Charge Time 6:49 • Trip Time 47:07

So between the 2 vehicles I was considering, on a basically cross-country trip, the LR RWD saves you just about 3 hours in charge/trip duration time. Way less than I was expecting. Even with the 18" aeros, its only 4.

Going down to the SR adds an additional hour and a half to the spread.

So this was a useful exercise for me. Is the 7K more $$ for the LR RWD worth it for 4 hour difference maybe once a year? Or even once every 2 years?

At this point no. I think the spread will widen once V3 chargers are along this route, since the SR+ won't be able to achieve the 250Kwh rate of the full size battery. Right now there's only guesses (some think the in the 170's).

Anyway, in case anyone else is balancing on this particular edge, maybe this post will be useful to you as well.

 

[hey.stephen]

Great job...i was happy to read this as i just orderd a LR RWD 18" aero last week after doing some of my own number crunching...however I didnt take into account V3 charging....hmmmm