Starlink and Ukraine War discussion

[Cosmacelf]

How Starlink Scrambled to Keep Ukraine Online

Elon Musk’s intervention demonstrates how satellite internet could route around war or censorship far beyond Ukraine.

www.wired.com

Good article. A few things caught my eye.

"It is the most mature of three projects, including one from Amazon," - Err, let me fix that to "It is the only one operating out of three announced..."

The other thing that struck me was the power of the TCP/IP Internet standard. Note what happened in Ukraine. It wasn't just ISPs they brought back to life, it is was cell towers for mobile communications. The only way that could work is if those cell towers could use the TCP/IP Internet for backhaul traffic - which wasn't the case ten years ago. The cellular network used to use completely incompatible technology for backhaul, now Internet technologies are much more prevalent.

Also this was interesting, "Nokia has also updated software used on its equipment for cell towers to better support Starlink".

 

[Grendal]

 

[scaesare]

View attachment 857196

Out of curiosity, that was tweeted 6 months ago... is there something germane currently?

 

[ecarfan]

"It is the most mature of three projects, including one from Amazon,"

Well, taken literally, that statement is correct. It just lacks context, as you noted.

 

[Dutchie]

Is there any way preventing the Russian army using Starlink while in occupied territory?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Is there any way preventing the Russian army using Starlink while in occupied territory?

Probably not. Why?

 

[nwdiver]

Is there any way preventing the Russian army using Starlink while in occupied territory?

I'm sure Starlink can disconnect it in the same way they would someone that doesn't pay their bill. Ukraine can keep track of the units they're using and report anything that's been captured.

 

[ecarfan]

I thought that SpaceX donated the Starlink hardware they sent to Ukraine, so they would not be billing whoever is using them. I suppose that if the Russians captured some dishes with their routers they would be able to use them if they were not reported to SpaceX as being stolen. In the confusion of war Ukraine might have a hard time keeping track of every piece of Starlink hardware.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I'm sure Starlink can disconnect it in the same way they would someone that doesn't pay their bill. Ukraine can keep track of the units they're using and report anything that's been captured.

Not when you were just shot by Russian soldiers who then took your equipment. Anyways, why does this matter? There are a lot of much bigger issues in a war like this.

 

[nwdiver]

Communication is a pretty big issue. Depriving Russians of communication would be just as much of a benefit as providing it to Ukraine. Doesn't seem that complicated to just have unit commanders report occasionally which units they're using and have everything not in use (possibly captured) deactivated.

The use of captured receivers could also be an asset I guess. Wouldn't star link know the exact location of every receiver in use?

 

[SO16]

Communication is a pretty big issue. Depriving Russians of communication would be just as much of a benefit as providing it to Ukraine. Doesn't seem that complicated to just have unit commanders report occasionally which units they're using and have everything not in use (possibly captured) deactivated.

The use of captured receivers could also be an asset I guess. Wouldn't star link know the exact location of every receiver in use?

Russians don’t have the issue of jammed communications in Ukraine.

 

[mspohr]

Elon Musk’s SpaceX says it can no longer fund Starlink internet in Ukraine

In a separate letter reported by CNN, an external consultant working for the company told the Pentagon: “SpaceX faces terribly difficult decisions here. I do not think they have the financial ability to provide any additional terminals or service.” Musk appeared to confirm that report on Friday morning, writing on Twitter that “nothing was leaked about our competitors in space launch & communications, Lockheed & Boeing, who get over $60B [from the US Department of Defence]”. In another post, he tweeted: “In addition to terminals, we have to create, launch, maintain & replenish satellites & ground stations & pay telcos for access to Internet via gateways. We’ve also had to defend against cyber-attacks & jamming, which are getting harder. Burn is approaching ~$20M/month.” But the request for funding comes after a high-profile intervention from Musk, who suggested Ukraine should seek an end to the war by surrendering territory to Russia and committing to remain “neutral”. His tweets led to a furious reaction from the Ukrainian government, which had previously praised Musk for offering the Starlink system.

 

[808?]

Elon Musk says SpaceX will keep funding Starlink in Ukraine despite losing money

Elon Musk said on Saturday that his rocket company SpaceX would continue to fund its Starlink internet service in Ukraine, a day after he said it could no longer afford to do so.

Musk tweeted: "the hell with it … even though starlink is still losing money & other companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we'll just keep funding ukraine govt for free".

 

[ElectricIAC]

Elon Musk says SpaceX will keep funding Starlink in Ukraine despite losing money

It’s only money.

 

[Grendal]

Maybe SpaceX will get some money from the DOD.

DoD eyeing options to provide satcom in Ukraine as it continues talks with SpaceX

DoD eyeing options to provide satcom in Ukraine as it continues talks with SpaceX

spacenews.com

 

[mspohr]

Maybe SpaceX will get some money from the DOD.

DoD eyeing options to provide satcom in Ukraine as it continues talks with SpaceX

DoD eyeing options to provide satcom in Ukraine as it continues talks with SpaceX

spacenews.com

Stupid for Elon to try to negotiate with DoD through Twitter.
He really looks bad.

 

[SO16]

Maybe SpaceX will get some money from the DOD.

DoD eyeing options to provide satcom in Ukraine as it continues talks with SpaceX

DoD eyeing options to provide satcom in Ukraine as it continues talks with SpaceX

spacenews.com

As a senior U.S. defense official told The Washington Post, SpaceX “sticks the DoD with the bill for a system no one asked for but now so many depend on.”

Except Ukraine did ask Elon directly.

 

[Grendal]

As a senior U.S. defense official told The Washington Post, SpaceX “sticks the DoD with the bill for a system no one asked for but now so many depend on.”

Except Ukraine did ask Elon directly.

Exactly. This is where the government would prefer to go to their contractors and hand them a bunch of money but the private company reacted quickly and made them look bad. Now you can find some crony of the contractors to say something controversial so you can get extra clicks. PS - The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos.

I always like the comments section of the Space News article to get a broader view of what the article is really saying.

 

[Grendal]

The geo-political discussion in the comments section is a very interesting read.

Pentagon: It’s up to SpaceX to decide what to do about Starlink in Ukraine - SpaceNews

Pentagon press secretary Pat Ryder said Oct. 18 DoD would not comment on Elon Musk's recent tweets about Starlink services in Ukraine

spacenews.com

 

[petit_bateau]

I'll make a note of this here, please feel free to copy it over to any other SpaceX threads.

In principle this is how any GPS works. When the UK booted itself out of the inner core of the EU Galileo this is probably what the UK was trying to replace for itself by taking a stake in OneWeb or whatever that is called now. The reason the UK did that was in pursuit of defence autonomy for some critical things.

Starlink signals can be reverse-engineered to work like GPS—whether SpaceX likes it or not

Elon said no thanks to using his mega-constellation for navigation. Researchers went ahead anyway.

www.technologyreview.com