The NYT article is paywalled, but the excerpts posted here don't seem to imply that to me. What gives you that impression?
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Starlink and Ukraine War discussion
- Thread starter mspohr
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The NYT article is paywalled, but the excerpts posted here don't seem to imply that to me. What gives you that impression?
Obviously Starlink is a useful resource, but do you have anything that describes it as being THE critical capability in the war that has prevented the Russians from winning?
Why did US govt buy Starlink services for Ukraine if they could provide something better and more robust?
Because it was the best solution for a useful capability?
I'm questioning what evidence there is that it's the critical capability that has prevented the Russians from winning?
Wars have been fought and won without it in the past... in some cases by armies less technically sophisticated.
There are multiple reasons (and combinations thereof) why wars are won. Anything from more determined fighters to weather. But having a good tool is better than not having one. Ukraine seems to be heavily using drones and without that capability, there is a bigger chance for defeat.
Perhaps there can be a repeat of this but maybe not:
Pentagon Impressed by Starlink's Fast Signal-Jamming Workaround in Ukraine
An official with the US Office of the Secretary of Defense says he was impressed with how quickly SpaceX foiled a Russian jamming attempt on Starlink dishes in Ukraine last month.
Again, not trying to be argumentative, but what evidence do you have for asserting that the Ukrainians would have lost without Starlink (and "long ago", implying it's not only critical but overwhelmingly so)?:
There are other communications/data dissemination methods.... radio being a traditional one.
Radio can be jammed, no?
Ukraine seems to heavily use drones.
Ukraine relies on Starlink for its drone war. Russia appears to be bypassing sanctions to use the devices too | CNN
Ukrainian troops say they are experiencing problems with the vital Starlink internet service, used to run Kyiv’s attack drones, and report increased Russian use of the devices.
amp.cnn.com
Radio can be jammed, no?
Ukraine seems to heavily use drones.
Ukraine relies on Starlink for its drone war. Russia appears to be bypassing sanctions to use the devices too | CNN
Ukrainian troops say they are experiencing problems with the vital Starlink internet service, used to run Kyiv’s attack drones, and report increased Russian use of the devices.
Paywalled. Does it have something to support your assertion, or are you just avoiding answering directly?
I honestly don’t know what you are after.
Ukraine seems to think Starlink is pretty darn important to their success. Sent you articles stating how critical it is.
Here’s another. There was even a video on X a while back of several Ukrainian soldiers thanking Elon for Starlink. (Can’t find it.) Even Zelensky recognized it. If it wasn’t that vital, I doubt they would have done it. Remember, Russia knocked out most (all?) other forms of electronic communication. If you can’t communicate, you are pretty much SOL for coordination.
Ukrainian soldier says Elon Musk’s Starlink ‘changed the war’ with Russia: report
Elon Musk’s decision to provide SpaceX Starlink satellite internet to assist Ukraine during the Russian invasion has been a major boost to the country’s military, a Ukrainian soldier who has been f…
nypost.com
I honestly don’t know what you are after.
Ukraine seems to think Starlink is pretty darn important to their success. Sent you articles stating how critical it is.
Here’s another. There was even a video on X a while back of several Ukrainian soldiers thanking Elon for Starlink. (Can’t find it.) Even Zelensky recognized it. If it wasn’t that vital, I doubt they would have done it. Remember, Russia knocked out most (all?) other forms of electronic communication. If you can’t communicate, you are pretty much SOL for coordination.
Ukrainian soldier says Elon Musk’s Starlink ‘changed the war’ with Russia: report
Elon Musk’s decision to provide SpaceX Starlink satellite internet to assist Ukraine during the Russian invasion has been a major boost to the country’s military, a Ukrainian soldier who has been f…
Just like to see evidence for categorical assertions.
While folks may hold strong opinions, that's not the same as stating something as fact.
The EVIDENCE is the fact that the leader of Ukraine, several military personnel in Ukraine and the US have made it clear it is “IMPORTANT”.
Wether or not they would have fallen is based on my “expert” OPiNION. Should have been obvious. Just like anyone stating the opposite. Difficult to prove a fact on a hypothetical with real life and no ability to run a parallel simulation.. you seem to want to say they wouldn’t have fallen. Can you factually prove they wouldn’t have fallen by now without it?
What a ridiculous discussion.
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Lot of things are important. Starlink undoubtedly is as well. You simply asserted the Ukraine would have already lost without it, long ago no less.
I did not know if you had seen a statement by someone with firsthand knowledge to the effevce it prevented the Russians from winning some time ago. Hence my question.
Hence the danger in making categorical assertions.
Nope. Never said, or even implied any such thing. Please supply if you disagree.
Nope. But I never asserted they would have.
It would have been much easier if my initial question had been answered directly.
@SO16 didn't say that, I did.
Now ask me that question and I will answer.
I am a self professed military expert and I know that Ukraine's defense would have been far less effective without any (even rudimentary) electronic communication. Given that the whole war has been in a balance for quite some time, it only takes a few dominoes to fall before the whole façade crumbles. For all his good intentions, I blame Elon for extending this war needlessly.
It’s worth noting that such a service doesn’t exist. Starshield isn’t a thing yet and there’s no way The Man would let Ukraine—a country that’s closer to The Enemy Of Our Enemy than Best Buds on the Are They An Ally? spectrum—use DOD satcomm solutions anyway. (Existing or not)
There may be a few western GEOs that cover Ukraine (SES? Eutelsat?) that perhaps could be considerd, but that would probably make for akward bedfellows considering the players, plus GEOs are easier to jam.
I wasn’t referring to Starshield.
Lol!
I was answering your [presumably rhetorical] question about the US government’s better than Starlink options for Ukraine with: T’aint no such thing.
Apologies for the misattribution. I guess when @SO16 took up the mantle of arguing for that, I fudged that up on a reply.
It would seem that a miltary (like the Ukraine) would have at least "rudimentary electronic communication" even if supplied by allied nations. Not sure that's evidence that otherwise they would have been overwhelmingly defeated, as implied in the "long ago: phrase...
But, as it's a hypothetical, I respect it's your opinion as an observer, rather than insider.
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Moderator note: This is an important discussion. Let's keep it civil. The reality is that people are being killed in this conflict.
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