14mpg with a Jeep Rubicon is pretty good considering they come with 4.10 Gears. Sequoia comes with a 4.30 gear ratio. Great for towing and low end power. Terrible for high fuel mileage.
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Starting to feel like Cybertruck is going the way of the Roadster: Vaporware
- Thread starter Hank42
- Start date
So like an additional 200-400 wh/mi above rated range? With my math from tow data with my LX and 8 years experience with two Teslas I’m calculating 700-1k additional Wh/mi (above rated) if I tow my camper with an EV. So even if the largest CT battery is 200kw I’ll be lucky to get 175 miles.
I believe it was about 450 to 600 wh/m at highway speeds. Can't speculate on Cybertruck because it's not out yet but the aero dynamic drag is the biggest use of energy.
Fuel Economy – Bugatti Chiron Super Sport – 9 mpg
It only makes pure and beautiful sense that one of the most expensive cars on the planet is also the absolute worst on fuel. The fact that a 2022 model year vehicle has a single-digit fuel economy rating almost feels illegal. It’s not far off from being illegal, either. However, Bugatti is riding it out while they can still get away with it. The Chiron Super Sport uses a quad-turbocharged W16 engine that makes a breathtaking 1,577 horsepower and 1,180 pound-feet of torque. It has a top speed of over 270 miles per hour.
The EPA stats are abysmal on this legendary vehicle. It has a city rating of 8 miles per gallon and a highway rating of 11. This gives the Chiron Super Sport a combined EPA rating of just nine mpg. Additionally, the EPA site states that driving a Chiron compared to the average 2022 vehicle will cost an extra $30,000 over five years. Furthermore, it says that it costs $14 to drive 25 miles and has an annual fuel cost of $8,400, assuming an average of 15,000 annual miles. Let’s be honest, though; no Bugatti accumulates that mileage. Considering its base price of $3,825,000, you 100 percent don’t have to feel any sympathy for Chiron owners at the pump.
Yes, the 2.5 million dollar car that needs $12K in new rims every other year as a maintenance item & $5K oil changes, is totally relevant to this discussion as many people cross shop this vehicle against the M3, but the performance version of course!
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Take another look at the complete list... lots of American Trucks and SUVs with terrible mileage. Ram, Jeep, Toyota, GMC, and Chevrolet.
| MODEL | Comb MPG | City/Hwy MPG | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Bugatti Chiron Pur / Super Sport | 9 | 8 / 11 | |
| Lamborghini Aventador (Coupe and Roadster) | 11 | 9 / 16 | |
| RAM 1500 TRX 4×4 | 12 | 10 / 14 | |
| Ferrari 812 GTS | 13 | 12 / 15 | |
| Bentley Continental GT Speed Convertible | 14 | 12 / 18 | |
| Rolls-Royce Cullinan | 14 | 12 / 20 | |
| Rolls-Royce Phantom | 14 | 12 / 20 | |
| Rolls-Royce Ghost | 14 | 12 / 19 | |
| Ford GT | 14 | 12 / 18 | |
| Ferrari 812 Competizione | 14 | 12 / 16 | |
| Lamborghini Urus | 14 | 12 / 17 | |
| Bentley Bentayga Speed | 14 | 12 / 18 | |
| Jeep Wrangler Rubicon | 14 | 13 / 17 | |
| Toyota Sequoia 4WD | 14 | 13 / 17 | |
| GMC Sierra 4WD (mud tires) | 14 | 13 / 17 | |
| Chevrolet Silverado 4WD (mud tires) | 14 | 13 / 17 |
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
When Sandy Munro visited Nikola last year, they stated that fueling their hydrogen prototype took over an hour.
But even their best-case scenario was 10-15 minutes. You cannot simply fill a high-pressure tank instantaneously by exposing it to explosive pressure deltas.
The Tesla Semi will use Megachargers (1000kW!) which will presumably take longer than hydrogen fueling, but the difference is minutes not hours.
Honestly, hydrogen looks inferior to bio-diesel for long-haul trucking. Hydrogen initially showed promise but a working "Mr. Fusion" is more likely at this point.
You named several vehicles that are in a totally different class such as lifted off-road high powered V8 vehicles & a bunch of super cars.
Even a brand new 4x4 V8 GM truck gets 20+ mpg in the real world these days.
Of course I want even better economy, but using factory modified dinosaurs & exotic supercars to make your '12mpg is common' argument is pretty disingenuous.
Even gas guzzlers, talking only brand new obviously to properly compare to a CT, get about 20 mpg these days.
You could just admit you were wrong?
Thanks. So you were ~200-350 Wh/mi increase above rated. Should see a similar increase above rated Wh/mi regardless of tow vehicle.
Thank you, I missed that one.
So "Will always be free*"
*If included at purchase**,***
** And not traded to Tesla
*** But your Supercharging might be so heavily nerfed you don't want to use it anyway.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Too funny, here is your original statement below.
It's clearly incorrect regarding your claim that Exotic sports cars and American Trucks and SUVs are getting "pretty darn good economy".
The key point is that many OEM stock vehicles from Ram, Jeep, Toyota, GMC, and Chevrolet have a long way to go on fuel economy.
The truth will set you free.
I averaged 16.1 mpg on a highway/street mix in 4 years of owning a R35 GT-R. A Corvette, is a mainstream sports car that GM made sure hit certain metrics (‘good’ MPG, luggage capacity.’ ‘Exotic’ cars (Lamborghini, Ferrari etc.) that I’ve driven require high octane gasoline and got between 15-11mpg on average.
While a ‘long highway run’ might improve fuel efficiency, stop and go traffic sees a really big dip in that equation.
‘Slippery’ is subjective-exotic sports cars have to actually produce drag in certain areas to help with high speed stability. (And you want that stability at speeds over 160mph)
And with turbos/cooling systems , AWD systems, huge brakes, oversized castings for suspension components etc., even with the usage of carbon fiber-‘light’ usually isn’t an outcome of exotics (and weight has little effect on fuel efficiency at high speeds vs. drag).
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Still not certain what an exotic has to do with EV efficiency, or the efficiency of the typical modern vehicle.
Obviously Supercars are an extreme outlier. It's like me quoting the energy usage of the Hummer EV to argue that EV's don't use their energy efficiently. Yah, that one doesn't, but it's for a wealthy people to have a toy. Not for the average person to commute in. Same with an exotic, obviously.
Obviously Supercars are an extreme outlier. It's like me quoting the energy usage of the Hummer EV to argue that EV's don't use their energy efficiently. Yah, that one doesn't, but it's for a wealthy people to have a toy. Not for the average person to commute in. Same with an exotic, obviously.
Your assertion was that exotics get pretty good MPG when driven for economy because they are ‘slippery and light’. My point exactly was outside of a few outliers, that’s not true. I’m not sure if that’s a hard concept to grasp here.
This whole thing has gone into the weeds. Why are we arguing about how "good" of fuel economy super cars get. All Teslas and most EV's get over 100mpge.... Anything less than 70mpg should be considered inefficient at this point.
Jigglypuff
Member
That's an arbitrary and nonesensically high bar. I'd call 30 MPG highway OK these days. 40MPG is efficient.
Between my wife and I over the last 25 years we have owned ~30 vehicles. Every ICE got <30mpg. I can’t think of a full size truck or SUV that can get 30mpg in the real world.
We have had ICE vehicles capable of 40mpg or above for over 10 years. There is no reason that we couldn't have figured out how to make an ICE vehicle that gets over 50mpg. I get 70mpg seems like a high bar but it is doable with today's tech. I get trucks likely would be in the 30mpg range but common passenger vehicles can do better.
rhumbliner
Member
I’m curious how you come up with those numbers. There are only so many BTU’s in a gallon of fuel and it sounds like you would need to achieve 100% efficiency to reach that kind of mileage.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
I got 55MPG in my Honda CRX back in the 90's.
Of course, it had 2 seats, 3 cylinders, and about 5 lb-ft of torque lol, but it got the job done.
My 93 civic got 38mpg, 2010 Honda Insight I was able to achieve 62.8mpg. original insight was rated at almost 70mpg. Main way would be to just have an EV with a gasoline generator. That's why EVs make more sense. Why have 2 systems when you can have one super efficient system.
