Still worth getting a Model 3 if Electricity costs more than Gas?

[Glamisduner]

Here in San Diego, residential, single family home. It looks like the cost of electricity will cost more than my gas car which currently gets 34mpg average citi / highway.

TOU plan for EV vehciles: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/...dule EV-TOU & EV-TOU-2 Total Rates Tables.pdf

Here is the tiered plan I have now (We have solar so typically we stay in tier 1 but osmetimes lapse into tier 2 when running the AC in the summer (we get triple digits).
https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-18 Schedule DR Total Rates Table.pdf
We have a small 1400sqft house, but we do not have natural gas, so electric water heater etc.

Best calculator I found is this one which does not have the 3, so I used the S instead... Hopefully you guys have a better calculator that will account for the model 3.
https://www.befrugal.com/tools/electric-car-calculator/

if I switch to SDG&E TOU plan for electric vehicles owners in the summer the average cost of electricity will be $.38 per kWh. Comes out to
$2,273.91 for the model S with my commute and $2,117.65 for my current ford focus that gets 34 mpg with gas at $3.20 a gallon.

I almost think a hybrid might be a better idea in terms of costs but I don't really want a hybrid I don't think I want either full gas / diesel or all electric. I really wanted a plugin so I can use the carpool lane at work. But you can get the sticker if you get a volt, but then I have a battery and gas engine maintenance... I guess now I know why I see so many Pri-i's (plural for pruis?)...

Power costs, drop closer to $.23.5 in the winter so maybe I should average that in? cost would be $.29 then bring the numbers to $1,712.81 for the model 3 which means it would still be slightly cheaper than gas.

Also what are the real tesla maintenance costs? I heard they are quite high for an electric vehicle. The bolt is essentially no maintenance until 100k miles then a coolant flush. Telsa model 3 is like $500 per year?

Not trying to pinch pennies here, but part of the idea of paying more for an electric vehicle is that your supposed to save on fueling it to compensate for your higher monthly payment which does not sound like that will be the case for most owners in San Diego, unless they are not charging at a single family home.

 

[gregincal]

If you are on a TOU plan it doesn't matter what the average cost of electricity is, it matters what the nighttime cost is, because that's when you will be charging your car. Also, the Model 3 will only use about 75-80% the electricity that the Model S will.

 

[TexasEV]

The TOU plan shows .23/kWh charging during the super off peak time (presumably during the night but it doesn’t specify). That’s when the vast majority of your charging will be. That seems crazy expensive for a middle of the night rate, but it’s still less than buying gasoline. Anyway saving money on gas isn’t the only or even the best reason to drive an EV.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

What cellphone do you use?

 

[jeffb]

Yeah, from the rate schedule you posted you should be doing your math at $0.23/kWh. Charge overnight when the rate is at its lowest.

I have a EV-TOU rate coupled with a solar system and its VERY beneficial in my case.....make power during the day when the rates are high generating credit that I then use at night when rates are low to charge my 2 Teslas. But our rate spread is bigger than yours, .45 peak, .12 off peak Sell high, buy low....

The only hiccup is the current lack of scheduled charging on my 3.....Have to plug in before I go to bed. But once that is updated and working on the 3 I will be able to do like I do with the S and just leave it plugged in when at home.

 

[bak_phy]

I'm going to have to stop complaining about paying $0.18 here in NJ.

 

[cwerdna]

If you are on a TOU plan it doesn't matter what the average cost of electricity is, it matters what the nighttime cost is, because that's when you will be charging your car.

Disagree completely.

Some of the TOU plans screw you very badly in all the other hours. There's no way at my house (even when I'm not home) to make my power consumption 0 during those other hours. And, there are times that I am home and am awake where those rates are not cheap.

I guess now I know why I see so many Pri-i's (plural for pruis?)...

Prii is right. Toyota Announces the Plural of Prius | Toyota

Toyota had this little fun video to go w/that ad campaign:

. (My "range extender" is an 06 Prius that I bought new in January 06.)

Some folks buy HOV sticker qualifying PHEVs only for the sticker and plug them in... That's always a way to go. There's the Prius Prime: 54 mpg combined EPA rating but unfortunately, short EV-only range and seating for only 4 (ala gen 1 Volt).

 

[PRSIST]

Not trying to pinch pennies here, but part of the idea of paying more for an electric vehicle is that your supposed to save on fueling it to compensate for your higher monthly payment which does not sound like that will be the case for most owners in San Diego, unless they are not charging at a single family home.

Owning an EV is not about the cost of gas! It's about eliminating the use of gas all together so that our kids and their kids will have clean air to breath long after we are dead.

 

[cwerdna]

The TOU plan shows .23/kWh charging during the super off peak time (presumably during the night but it doesn’t specify). That’s when the vast majority of your charging will be. That seems crazy expensive for a middle of the night rate...

The hours are defined at EV Rates | San Diego Gas & Electric.

FWIW, I'm in PG&E (Pacific Gouge & Extort) land. I'm on a TOU plan (E-6) but EV charging is free at my work. I also sometimes use free public L2 charging. I rarely charge at home, where I can only do L1.

But yeah, those SDG&E rates look pretty terrible.

 

[gregincal]

Disagree completely.

Some of the TOU plans screw you very badly in all the other hours. There's no way at my house (even when I'm not home) to make my power consumption 0 during those other hours. And, there are times that I am home and am awake where those rates are not cheap.

I think we're saying two different things. You are talking about whether a TOU plan is better or not, for the OP he specified that his numbers were calculated using a TOU plan, and I said that if you use a TOU plan for the EV cost you just need to look at nightime charging.

Generally TOU plans are best when you have solar (like the OP), because the most expensive times are also when you generate the most power.

 

[SMAlset]

My husband looked into our electrical rate situation with PG&E here in the SF bay area. We're kind of inland so get hot summers (90s-110F not unusual) and cold winters (below freezing and one year so far down to 25F). The fact that someone is always in the house for the most part eliminates us going with an evening use plan where we might get a break. Think he said our current usage is about $.28/kWh. We have a fairly new house with concrete tiles (and a solar vent) so our tiles lifetime is like 30 years. We'd really like to go the route of Tesla solar tiles with battery storage but that's gotta be down the road to make financial sense. Really not a fan of solar panels, small side roof where they would need to go and a number of roof vent cutouts limiting the number of panels.

Despite all the above, we wouldn't give up our Model S and are getting a Model 3. If the electric vs gas is a wash for us, we simply love our Tesla/s too much to want to go back to a gas engine again.

 

[jeffb]

Whether a TOU plan works for you or not depends on a lot of factors and since everyone's usage patterns are different.......gotta do the math....

For those of you in central or northern California check out the PG&E Toolkit app, you sign in and it pulls all your usage data from PG&E and can calculate your potential costs in all the different rate schedules. Takes the guesswork out of it.

 

[cwerdna]

I think we're saying two different things. You are talking about whether a TOU plan is better or not, for the OP he specified that his numbers were calculated using a TOU plan, and I said that if you use a TOU plan for the EV cost you just need to look at nightime charging.

He's not on a TOU plan now. He's considering switching to a TOU plan if he gets an EV and balking at the costs. I suspect if he remained on a tiered plan and drove the hypothetical EV the same amount, he'd be even more hosed in costs.

I'm saying that when looking at TOU plans, looking purely at the cheapest night time rates for charging an EV is foolish and making proclamations like "yay! My charging is only ___ cents. My cost is only ___/mile" is just as foolish. In the process, you've probably hosed yourself in all the other hours and likely increased your average cost of electricity. And, the cost of fueling the vehicle may not be any less than an efficient hybrid in high electricity cost areas.

Side note: I was amazed to discover the '18 Camry Hybrid is now rated at 52 mpg combined. That's very impressive for a gasoline powered car on the larger end of midsize with 208 hp.
Compare Side-by-Side.

 

[McRat]

Owning an EV is not about the cost of gas! It's about eliminating the use of gas all together so that our kids and their kids will have clean air to breath long after we are dead.

You do understand that EVs in California make air pollution unless you're pure solar off-grid, no-supercharging, right?

Electromotive propulsion is a superior drive technology compared to ICE and hybrid systems. However, if you use grid power, perhaps the biggest factor in your carbon footprint in the number of miles you drive. Living 2 miles from work and driving an Escalade is greener than living 100 miles from work and driving an EV.

The OP is a prime candidate for solar and a TOU.

 

[widodh]

Owning an EV is not about the cost of gas! It's about eliminating the use of gas all together so that our kids and their kids will have clean air to breath long after we are dead.

Yes, exactly that. True, my Model S is cheaper per Kilometer then a comparable gas car, but I simply don't want to burn gas. Period.

 

[cwerdna]

The OP is a prime candidate for solar and a TOU.

OP already has solar.

 

[McRat]

OP already has solar.

I didn't read that.

Anyhow, solar power will work against the .52/kWh tariff, which will effectively reduce the cost of running the car to nothing.

 

[SageBrush]

Correct me if I am wrong,
does the TOU plan have net metering and/or rate arbitrage built-in for PV+EV owners who generate during the day and charge at night ?

If so, then the first detail to sort out is the retail value of a generated and delivered kWh in the different time zones. Then it just becomes a question of how much PV to buy ;-)

The calculator OP linked to does not include home PV so it it is probably way, way off.

Fwiw, if I was counting pennies my major hesitancy would be the risk of the utility changing the terms. Are customers protected from bait and switch tactics ?

 

[jsmay311]

It's a difficult thing to compare a flat or tiered plan to a TOU plan without detailed info about when you use your power hour-by-hour and weekday vs weekend. But TOU+solar+EV is (generally) a great combo. Especially if you get credited at the TOU rate when you have excess generation during peak hours. (Not sure if that's how SDG&E does their net metering, but that's how it works with ComEd in IL.)

From what I can tell, the SDG&E "Peak" hours are only

May-Oct: 11am-6pm weekdays
Nov-Apr: 5pm-8pm weekdays

So that's only 1300 hours/year or 15% of the time. Plus the solar should offset much of your summer peak hour usage.

 

[McRat]

... But you can get the sticker if you get a volt, but then I have a battery and gas engine maintenance...

Depending on your driving habits, most Volts require little maintenance. IIRC, you change the oil every 2 years? Put some gas in it 4 times a year? The battery doesn't require maintenance. Volts are very low maintenance, and wildly quicker than the Priuses, any year or style.
Our work delivery vehicle is a 2017 Volt. 58.4 mile roundtrip today, 12.3 kWh. Not a drop of gas again, like the last 100+ deliveries. Never needs remote charging, seldom needs gas. Last stop for gas was about Halloween.

Maintenance: https://my.chevrolet.com/content/da.../2017/Chevrolet/Volt/Maintenance Schedule.pdf