That doesn't work well since the end of this week is 21.08. So it doesn't sound like they will give you much, if any, time to respond.
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Stock split tax implications for non-US shareholders
- Thread starter junas
- Start date
That doesn't work well since the end of this week is 21.08. So it doesn't sound like they will give you much, if any, time to respond.
stef
Member
Yeah exactly my objection. Though they have not been able to tell me anything more. Finger crossed common sense prevails...
Great news that makes me more confident. Thanks for sharing.
Regardless of BMF potentially have the position not to tax the event that does not give us the relief of the banks who don't know better and potentially still deduct taxes to avoid liability. It does not look like BMF works on clearance and if Banks don't have an official information from them at 8/31 they may deduct.
In the Google case a statement was announced, it was expressed that this should not be done but who knows if they follow or are aware.
"Da die Kreditinstitute in der Regel von einem steuerbaren Vorgang ausgingen, wurde für die eingebuchten Aktien der festgestellte Börsenkurs als Grundlage für die Berechnung der Höhe des Kapitalertrags verwendet und die eingebuchten Aktien zum Börsenkurs und nicht mit Null Euro bewertet. Der Börsenkurs bildete auch die Bemessungsgrundlage für die Be-rechnung der Höhe des Steuerabzugs durch die Depotbanken. Da bei unbaren Kapitalmaß-nahmen an den Anteilseigner aber keine Zahlung durch die Aktiengesellschaft erfolgte, musste der für den Steuerabzug notwendige Kapitalbetrag aus dem sonstigen Guthaben des Aktionärs bei der Depotbank verwendet werden. Stellte sich im Nachhinein heraus, dass der Vorgang tatsächlich nicht steuerbar war, haben nach dem bisherigen Recht Kre-ditinstitute, Verwaltung und Steuerpflichtige ein komplexes Rückabwicklungsverfahren zu bewältigen (vgl. BMF-Schreiben vom 8. Juli 2015, BStBl I S. 543).
Zukünftig ist als Folge der Neufassung des Satzes 5 bei Kapitalmaßnahmen ausländischer Gesellschaften immer ein Kapitalertrag von Null Euro anzusetzen. Die Besteuerung des Wertzuwachses erfolgt im Zeitpunkt der Veräußerung der eingebuchten Aktien. Damit wer-den entsprechende Rückabwicklungsverhältnisse vermieden."
Also, Todesbuckler informed me in a side conversation that the chances to get official info for all of us Germans from BMF if we send independent requests. That would alert them on that matter I believe and therefore I will send a request on my side as well.
Anybody joining is helpful.
jeewee3000
Active Member
The post itself was a bit back, so credit to the poster for finding it.
Here the link to the doc tsla-ex31_1396.htm
Clearstream Bank Frankfurt (CBF - depository)
swift message announcement for this event is categorized as, code SPLF, split-forward
which is not a taxable event
same with SIS switzerland
i went over time and again why the term “dividend” is used in industry jargon, and how a “forward” split is announced under the phylum of dividends, as far as corporate actions event types are concerned.
its not an income event
originally i said i’d let someone here that was from germany know when i found out. so i am. but it was so many pages ago (and in general thread) that i’ll never find out who originally asked
swift message announcement for this event is categorized as, code SPLF, split-forward
which is not a taxable event
same with SIS switzerland
i went over time and again why the term “dividend” is used in industry jargon, and how a “forward” split is announced under the phylum of dividends, as far as corporate actions event types are concerned.
its not an income event
originally i said i’d let someone here that was from germany know when i found out. so i am. but it was so many pages ago (and in general thread) that i’ll never find out who originally asked
Gerardf
Active Member
What you write is correct, however this 'split' could be interpreted as a dividend payout with a value of 80% of my TSLA portfolio suddenly seen as dividend payout, not so sure dividend is not taxed in this case. I got a reply from Lynx/IB that they can still not give me clarity but hope to get back to me this week. That confirms to me that there is some risk that this will be taxed.
My bookkeeper informed me that there are ways to recuperate the tax, but likely not 100% and might mean I have no access to these funds until I get it back (at least a year later). Anyway means risk and hassle. With SP of Euro 1600 for a single share significant amounts are typically involved for long-term shareholders.
I am even considering to sell all my shares just before the ' split' and buy them back afterwards unless I have confirmation this will not be taxed as dividend. . That involves some work, costs and risk that the shareprice changes in between, but would bring tax risk to zero for me.
Note that some other NL (EU ??) shareholders might be considering doing the same, what could give SP fluctuations.
So would be great if Tax offices could give clarity, IMHO also a task for Tesla IR in this.
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Selling all shares and buying back later would mean taxes are deducted. At least in Germany its a source tax that they deduct the second you sell. If you sell everything you would in Germany lose about 26% of your shares in the form of taxes when you buy again.
Sure you would avoid a potential risk of a "dividend tax" but since you don't know if they do it its speculation but what you know is that they tax you once you sell. What you do by selling is hence accepting a tax for a "maybe tax". I do not believe that to be a good decision.
If you believe the SP will dive its maybe anyway an opportunity for you to sell but if you believe like me the SP will further gain in value you will lose 26% (in Germany not sure about NL) shares times SP gains. That can be a significant amount.
Tesla IR gave already their statement twice. I posted that before.
Tax authorities don't care and IMHO won't inform us before 8/31
Hey all,
I got an email from my german broker today (comdirect):
Die Maßnahme wird laut aktueller Einstufung als steuerneutraler Aktiensplit abgewickelt. Negative steuerliche Auswirkungen in Form von Steuerbelastungen sind bei der Einbuchung der neuen Aktien daher nicht zu befürchten.
Die ursprünglichen Anschaffungswerte verteilen sich entsprechend auf die Gesamtanzahl der nach der Maßnahme im Depot befindlichen Stücke.
Rough translation:
As of now the split is considered a tax neutral measure, so no negative consequences are to be expected.
Yay!
I got an email from my german broker today (comdirect):
Die Maßnahme wird laut aktueller Einstufung als steuerneutraler Aktiensplit abgewickelt. Negative steuerliche Auswirkungen in Form von Steuerbelastungen sind bei der Einbuchung der neuen Aktien daher nicht zu befürchten.
Die ursprünglichen Anschaffungswerte verteilen sich entsprechend auf die Gesamtanzahl der nach der Maßnahme im Depot befindlichen Stücke.
Rough translation:
As of now the split is considered a tax neutral measure, so no negative consequences are to be expected.
Yay!
Gerardf
Active Member
For The Netherlands:
Just got confirmation from my Broker (Lynx / IB) that this will not be taxed :
Naar aanleiding van uw verzoek bericht ik u als volgt.
Onze backoffice heeft aangegeven dat de stock-split van Tesla geen voorheffing zal opleveren. U zult dus de extra aandelen Tesla onbelast ontvangen en uw gemiddelde aankoopprijs zal door 5 worden gedeeld.
++++++ Google translate:
In response to your request, I will inform you as follows.
Our back office has indicated that the Tesla stock split will not result in withholding tax. So you will receive the additional Tesla shares untaxed and your average purchase price will be divided by 5.
Just got confirmation from my Broker (Lynx / IB) that this will not be taxed :
Naar aanleiding van uw verzoek bericht ik u als volgt.
Onze backoffice heeft aangegeven dat de stock-split van Tesla geen voorheffing zal opleveren. U zult dus de extra aandelen Tesla onbelast ontvangen en uw gemiddelde aankoopprijs zal door 5 worden gedeeld.
++++++ Google translate:
In response to your request, I will inform you as follows.
Our back office has indicated that the Tesla stock split will not result in withholding tax. So you will receive the additional Tesla shares untaxed and your average purchase price will be divided by 5.
I just received similar message from Lynx/IB where most of my holdings are. I hope they've communicated with Finnish tax authorities too and not just giving same generic answer as in the Netherlands.
No written confirmation from Degiro yet.
I didn't even ask Nordnet where I've some old shares. Based on other posts in this thread it seems like Nordnet doesn't know anything and just gives random answers in different countries.
I just talked to my Bank, Cortal Consors and they confirmed that as of now the database all banks use the Tesla split is market as a NOT taxable event. They said that this could change later but is the status as of today.
That confirms what @elliott82 wrote about his call with Comdirect.
He did not know who is feeding that BM database he referred to but I could not imagine who else could be in charge other than BMF.
This is great news and considering that I won't write the information request letter to BMF as the answer will anyway not be received before 8/21
That confirms what @elliott82 wrote about his call with Comdirect.
He did not know who is feeding that BM database he referred to but I could not imagine who else could be in charge other than BMF.
This is great news and considering that I won't write the information request letter to BMF as the answer will anyway not be received before 8/21
cyclingthealps
Member
My broker got it from „WM-Datenservice“ which I think is where other brokers in Germany get their info from aswell.
For Finns, this link in turn seems to indicate that this would be considered a normal split in Finland, since the share class stays the same...
(warning finnish)
Arvopaperien luovutusten verotus
(warning finnish)
Arvopaperien luovutusten verotus
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