Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Chaserr]

That was smart of you. If someone is hurt or killed, your intentional silence over an issue you know to be a safety issue might put you in a bad place legally. Especially considering you maintain a collection of Teslas that aren't updated- f one of those owners or their families is harmed by a defect you were aware of beforehand things might not go well for anyone involved. On the other hand, if you downgrade your customers they won't enjoy paying you for the pleasure. It's a tough spot for you.

I know you're extremely sensitive to avoiding any court problems, so weigh everything against the legal ramifications keeping the secret. Others are willing to do everything for you, you don't need to assume any responsibility. You can continue to act surprised when the fires keep happening, but maybe doing something with what you know can reduce the chances of any of them ending tragically. There is a legal meeting between Tesla and DJRas' lawyers right now that would benefit from your information. It is currently private and sealed. Submit your information to them and they will show it to the court without this continuing to escalate.

 

[JRP3]

Anyways maybe it's obvious or maybe I'm the only one who feels this way but it sure sounds like @wk057's refusal to provide any useful information is due to NDA or being on Tesla payroll.

He's made it quite clear that it's his own decision to avoid exposing himself to any possible action from Tesla. Even if that action is unlikely to happen I can understand his desire to avoid having to get caught up in something like that. Tesla does tend to aggressively sue people. Even if whistle blower laws might protect him in the end who want's to go through all the hassle of litigating it?

 

[thesnooch]

He's made it quite clear that it's his own decision to avoid exposing himself to any possible action from Tesla. Even if that action is unlikely to happen I can understand his desire to avoid having to get caught up in something like that. Tesla does tend to aggressively sue people. Even if whistle blower laws might protect him in the end who want's to go through all the hassle of litigating it?

Tesla W2 for sure

 

[Chaserr]

What if you were to contact the class action lawyer and help. Wouldn't that protect you and actually get you reperation or immunity from Tesla. You might even be able to retire with such funding. Obviously in a perfect scenario.

Or contact the nthsa and let them know you want immunity too.

Just ideas. Die a hero.

Yes. This is the legal are proper way to do it.

NHTSA is probably more proper but give it to the class action first. Less damage to Tesla. Making it all go public is the worst, and that is what silence is going to cause. I've already said I'm OK with being lied to - lie to me and say it's coolant. Just fix the fires and help Tesla remember how to be a safe company.

If you're still claiming to be afraid and don't think the Class action is the way to go, the NHTSA will accept your info with anonymity and Tesla can't lash out at you over a federal investigation.

Listen to everyone, they want to help you help them.

Everybody wins, remember? Silence makes everyone lose - or if my English is hard to understand something more proper like "Evil prevails when good men do nothing" is nice too. Eventually, maybe lives will be lost. This thread WILL come up again if that happens.

 

[gmo43]

He's made it quite clear that it's his own decision to avoid exposing himself to any possible action from Tesla. Even if that action is unlikely to happen I can understand his desire to avoid having to get caught up in something like that. Tesla does tend to aggressively sue people. Even if whistle blower laws might protect him in the end who want's to go through all the hassle of litigating it?[/QUOTE

Lawyers? Lol

 

[wk057]

@Chaserr - I've literally been here all day trying to get you to do one of two things:

Share a link to where Tesla said that the San Francisco vehicle fire was related to coolant from being on an incline;

or

Admit that this was speculation misrepresented as fact.

Can you do this, or not?

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Also, so this doesn't get buried: Summary of Chaserr's Deflection Tactics and Refusal to Answer a Simple Question Regarding a Citation (already a bit dated, so might want to skim the post proceeding it for more context)[/QUOTE]

 

[JRP3]

Lawyers? Lol

I don't understand. Lawyers don't exist? Tesla doesn't sue people?

 

[thesnooch]

Anyone else think JRP3 might be Alex Spiro himself?

 

[thesnooch]

@Chaserr - I've literally been here all day trying to get you to do one of two things:

Share a link to where Tesla said that the San Francisco vehicle fire was related to coolant from being on an incline;

or

Admit that this was speculation misrepresented as fact.

Can you do this, or not?

---

Also, so this doesn't get buried: Summary of Chaserr's Deflection Tactics and Refusal to Answer a Simple Question Regarding a Citation (already a bit dated, so might want to skim the post proceeding it for more context)

[/QUOTE]

Bro! answer the question what is x and what is z? Or G T F O

 

[Chaserr]

It has always been speculation based on logical deduction. I wish you would stop misrepresenting and start contributing. Logical deductive reasoning is all we can do in this thread. Some reject reason - sometimes even reality - but that doesn't fix anything. Reason might. It's pushed Tesla far enough that a certain person that won't cite anything hints at mysterious resolutions maybe coming some day.

You can end it. Turn everything over to the NHTSA. You can do it with immunity and Tesla can't do a thing against you. The NHTSA won't even show them what they have - they will investigate it and try to catch Tesla in lies so your info will NEVER get out. That's what you want right?

 

[Chaserr]

Auto Industry Whistleblower Rewards - McEldrew Young Purtell

NHTSA Whistleblower Program | Motor Vehicle Safety Whistleblower Act

Motor Vehicle Safety Whistleblower Act - Wikipedia

govinfo

The NHTSA has a whistleblower program. Use it.

 

[thesnooch]

Great! I think this was a productive session! We've established that:
1. MP3Mike = Tesla W2/1099
2. JRP3 = Alex Spiro / 1099's fo SHO! billing Tesla at 2k/hour
3. WK057 = 1099'ed and NDA'ed

We outtie.

 

[mymagiccarpet]

Seems like there is a lot of frustration in this thread and it is coming out in different ways. One way to think about it also, is who benefits from the direction where this thread has turned. It's not the affected owners in my opinion. I'm certainly not gaining anything any more coming here every day. Furthermore, this is a public thread, I cannot tell who really owns affected car and who might be here for very different reasons, if anyone at all, but it is a good reason to not allow the thread to go to side topics. Finally, the thread has been going on for a long time, and 600 pages is a looooot of info, not much has been happening, and naturally, topic will go sideways every now and then, but it may be a time to get the focus back on the original issue, which is how do we get our cars to pre batterygate state from usable battery capacity standpoint in a safe manner - until this happens, we have not won anything, whether truth comes or not. I would like to know the truth, sure, but my primary concerns are 1. Be safe, 2. I want it back b/c I paid for it, 3. I want it back bc I need it and that is why I paid for it

• Are there ways we can help the lawsuit?
• Has anyone filed an NHTSA complaint and what was it for specifically? This may be sensitive for some, so you don't need to confirm you filed, but maybe we can talk about ideas what should be in it.
• we focused a while back on spreading the information to potentially affected owners, and i'm not sure if that's still needed
• Other actions?

Also want to thank the folks who created the first page of the thread with all the information. It is very comprehensive, well organized and extremely helpful. Instead of explaining to a new MS owner recently, I just forwarded the link to first page. That person has 100D, so likely not affected, but they read it and are aware which is the purpose of sharing that information.

 

[wk057]

It has always been speculation based on logical deduction.

You sure fooled me, and everyone else it seems.

But at least finally a solid answer and admission that there is no source for the statements made.

I'd suggest you be more careful in the future and use qualifiers such as "I believe", "probably", "might have", "my hypothesis", etc when you're noting something that is speculation. Definitely can get into trouble otherwise.

I wish you would stop misrepresenting everthing in this thread.

ME?! lol

Turn everything over to the NHTSA. You can do it with immunity and Tesla can't do a thing against you. The NHTSA won't even show them what they have - they will investigate it and try to catch Tesla in lies so your info will NEVER get out. That's what you want right?

Now you claim to know what I want somehow too... nice. lol

I don't care what happens to Tesla either way, personally.

---

For the record, I don't currently nor have I ever worked for Tesla. The closest I've been to doing so is with their bug bounty program on BugCrowd and have been paid for reporting quite a few software security issues over the years. I have no NDAs with them, either. Closest thing to an NDA was the "please don't share this stuff" language of the Early Access Program that I used to be in way back when. (Edit, also, not that it's anyone's business, but I've alos not traded, held, shorted, or otherwise touched or had any TSLA positions for something like 5 years now. Pity, I know, given the ridiculous rise in price, but its the truth.)

After careful consideration I made the decision to not publicly share the details I uncovered about the range loss issue and things that lead to it or are related to it. In hindsight, I probably should have said nothing at all publicly about it.

Tesla's never threatened me or otherwise tried to "silence" me. I'm not keeping this to myself for any reason other than to protect myself, my family, my business, etc from even the remote possibility of wasting tons of time and money defending myself against Tesla if they decided to sue me. If someone's got a few million bucks we can stick in reserve to cover those potential costs, let me know, and I can probably be convinced to reconsider.

Suffice it to say, nothing I could release would help anyone here at this point. This is going to be a consumer protection side civil law thing, I'd guess, over how Tesla's handled things with the range and charging speed losses. I don't believe the NHTSA will do anything (and yes, they have all of the info I have). Why wont they do anything? Because the range loss/charge speed loss issue isn't related to fires. Period. Get over it.

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I mainly was here today procrastinating today. I should get back to work.

 

[aerodyne]

Bro! answer the question what is x and what is z? Or G T F O[/QUOTE]

I don't think we have a right to demand someone like WK057 do more than he has already done. The forum is a voluntary activity. It would be bad for all if WK went away again...

 

[Battpower]

It has always been speculation based on logical deduction........... Logical deductive reasoning is all we can do in this thread.

Except some might be able to go further..... or not. It has to be the call of each individual based on what they know / think they know.

 

[Chaserr]

He's been demanding we supply sources. Are we calling him a hypocrite or are we holding him to his word?

I posted links for him to post to the NHTSA, the applicable whistleblower protection acts, and a lawyer or two if he feels confused reading any of it.

He has a lot of harsh words for himself for not being able to provide sources.

 

[gmo43]

I don't understand. Lawyers don't exist? Tesla doesn't sue people?

You asked who had time to litigate.

So I answered lawyers. That their job.

 

[wk057]

Wait... how do I become a paid bot?! Damnit, this is the job I want!

 

[Battpower]

He's been demanding we supply sources. Are we calling him a hypocrite or are we holding him to his word?

I posted links for him to post to the NHTSA, the applicable whistleblower protection acts, and a lawyer or two if he feels confused reading any of it.

He has a lot of harsh words for himself for not being able to provide sources.

I knew a guy who had an 'invention' that got enough momentum for big-auto to send the heavies around. With so much money at stake, it's a dog eat dog environment from what I heard. No matter what you do, however small, it's easy enough for Tesla to claim whatever they like then you have to defend.

That said, if @wk057 does have some super relevant insight then hopefully he can find a way to quietly do the right thing. From what he says, maybe he doesn't. His call. I'm not on here to be a jurer or co-judge.