Sudden Unexpected Acceleration today

[Butane]

Go read up details on SUA filed on S and X on NHTSA website where people are claiming they did not touch the accelerator pedal and the car accelerated suddenly. As I said earlier “pedal” is only part of the equation, which might execute few lines of code, there are thousands other that are conditional execution based on what the software thinks it wants to do.

Also, the earth is flat and it's all a conspiracy by the globists. Right? Any other truths we should know?

 

[alexeiw123]

Let's have a moment's silence for OP, who has only two options here.

1. Present the facts from wk057 that an incorrect user input is realistically the only possible explanation, AKA: tell wife she's wrong.
2. Fight tooth and nail against both the internet and Tesla, AKA: stand by wife.

OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place!

This post has a take away for me though; purchasing an EV is probably a good time to learn left foot braking.

 

[AZM3]

Let's have a moment's silence for OP, who has only two options here.

1. Present the facts from wk057 that an incorrect user input is realistically the only possible explanation, AKA: tell wife she's wrong.
2. Fight tooth and nail against both the internet and Tesla, AKA: stand by wife.

OP is stuck between a rock and a hard place!

This post has a take away for me though; purchasing an EV is probably a good time to learn left foot braking.

Funny... Either way I am screwed. Guess I will never find out the truth....from either parties.

 

[Evoforce]

Funny... Either way I am screwed. Guess I will never find out the truth....from either parties.

So either way it seems a choice of a "good way to be screwed" or a "bad way to be screwed". I think I would choose the "good" way. I understand why you would tend to side with her.

 

[tpatana]

So either way it seems a choice of a "good way to be screwed" or a "bad way to be screwed". I think I would choose the "good" way. I understand why you would tend to side with her.

Well, it's all equal, sometimes the wife is right, and sometimes the husband is wrong.

 

[dsvick]

The Model 3 is not exceptionally fast off the line. Every single make and model of car has unintended acceleration incidents...
The solution is to go back to manual transmissions!

Right, no one ever popped the clutch thinking it was in neutral or confused forward vs reverse
Time to go single pedal hydrostatic with brake on the left side (of the tractor)!

Time to go back to horses, at least then people will believe you that the horse started moving on its own.

 

[wk057]

I'll just note, for the record, that the OP explicitly ignored the multiple posts, even between their most recent postings, which specifically explained multiple reasons why the car accelerating on its own, especially with the brake pressed, is not possible.

"These facts negate my opinion... better ignore them."

#AlternativeFacts

 

[bro1999]

And this is definitely a key point that keeps getting ignored.

The cars have a lot of torque available, and on my bench I actually use the hydraulic brakes as a dummy load when testing motors. However, if the motor isn't moving, it can not break free of a solid brake press. Heck, even the puny pads of the parking brake make it almost impossible for it to break free. The performance motors can break free of the parking brake with extreme difficulty, but not the hydraulic brakes. It just sits there and struggles until the motor throws an error and gives up (few seconds).

Here's a (private) video clip I made a while back of a small rear Model S drive unit on my bench (pretty similar specs to the 3 drive units) trying to break free of just the parking brake, which has wayyyy less force than the hydraulic brakes.

Ramped to full throttle at least once in there, zero wheel movement.

So yeah, sorry... no one's foot was on the brake pedal while the car was quickly accelerating. Just not possible. The accelerator pedal was pressed. User error.

I wish folks would just get over it and move on... but, the internet.

A Tesla going Skynet is such a more sexy story though.

 

[CO2CLEAN]

Just some examples that show it happens in all sort of cars and situations. Sorry to hear about this accident and I hope it all works out in the end.

 

[Runt8]

Just some examples that show it happens in all sort of cars and situations. Sorry to hear about this accident and I hope it all works out in the end.

Wow, the NHTSA must be swamped investigating all those brake pedal failures...

 

[McRat]

Just some examples that show it happens in all sort of cars and situations. Sorry to hear about this accident and I hope it all works out in the end.

You do understand that statistically female drivers are superior, at least from the data I have. Men deliberately push the wrong pedal.

This is great: Intentional unintentional acceleration:

 

[mekberg]

Just some examples that show it happens in all sort of cars and situations. Sorry to hear about this accident and I hope it all works out in the end.

Why call out women drivers?

 

[CO2CLEAN]

Just to be clear, I had and have no intention to only focus on women. I didn’t even notice it in the title. Could have been all male drivers. It’s all the same to me

 

[TriTexan]

If you're already moving at great speed it's possible for the brakes not to overpower the motor(s)/engine (due to the pads fading before they can significantly reduce speed), but from a stop generally speaking all cars should have more braking force than the power train can overcome. If you're moving slowly, typically, the brakes should still win.

Not sure I agree with this. I have a car with nearly 1000hp (yes, it's a highly modified one...) and regardless of speed, the brakes can slow the car from pretty much ANY speed, regardless of whether the throttle is closed or 100% open.

Brake fade CAN happen, but only if the brakes have already been pushed hard and are very hot. But fade <> non-functional. The car WILL stop even with hot, faded brakes, even under full throttle on a super powerful engine. It just might not stop quite as fast. But it WILL stop. Properly working brakes, if pressed, will immediately begin slowing the car regardless of engine power, regardless of vehicle speed.

 

[nvx1977]

Just some examples that show it happens in all sort of cars and situations. Sorry to hear about this accident and I hope it all works out in the end.

Model S at 4:20 mark.

 

[buttershrimp]

Just to be clear, I had and have no intention to only focus on women. I didn’t even notice it in the title. Could have been all male drivers. It’s all the same to me

I'm so offended no one included elderly transgender people in a video compilation....I have a dream of one day living in a world where people of all ages, races and genders can accelerate into others without feeling DISCRIMINATED AGAINST! THAT'S IT DAMMIT.... I'M CANCELLING MY ORDER!

 

[K-MTG]

While backing my 3 out of the garage one morning...I noticed that the brakes required a greater amount of force to push. It went away by the next drive but I was told that this was due to a lag on the modules prior to 18.10.5.

A break assist failure shouldn't cause unexpected acceleration though...just make it harder to brake.

 

[Ulmo]

FUD. The woman driver stepped on the gas, and the logs will prove it.

And how does someone be a "long time lurker" and never want to post? I don't believe you.

I disagree. I suspect that there is an unsolved hack problem. These could be people that foreign countries that have hacking resources could want offed.

This is what happens when you have a car that goes full speed too fast for most people to handle.

I agree. I believe that is one common source for this problem.


See what I did there? I have an opinion that considers multiple possibilities, and has concluded that both are possible at the same time across a large data set (even though more likely for each instance only one of those are true at a time).

And this is definitely a key point that keeps getting ignored.

The cars have a lot of torque available, and on my bench I actually use the hydraulic brakes as a dummy load when testing motors. However, if the motor isn't moving, it can not break free of a solid brake press. Heck, even the puny pads of the parking brake make it almost impossible for it to break free. The performance motors can break free of the parking brake with extreme difficulty, but not the hydraulic brakes. It just sits there and struggles until the motor throws an error and gives up (few seconds).

Here's a (private) video clip I made a while back of a small rear Model S drive unit on my bench (pretty similar specs to the 3 drive units) trying to break free of just the parking brake, which has wayyyy less force than the hydraulic brakes.

Ramped to full throttle at least once in there, zero wheel movement.

So yeah, sorry... no one's foot was on the brake pedal while the car was quickly accelerating. Just not possible. The accelerator pedal was pressed. User error.

I wish folks would just get over it and move on... but, the internet.

That's strong evidence against my theory of hack. While I admit I may be wrong, I don't want to stop competent people from investigating hack potential. @wk057, for pedantic's sake, is the brake pedal physically linked to those brakes, or is there a computer interruptable link in the brakes?

 

[tpatana]

That's strong evidence against my theory of hack. While I admit I may be wrong, I don't want to stop competent people from investigating hack potential. @wk057, for pedantic's sake, is the brake pedal physically linked to those brakes, or is there a computer interruptable link in the brakes?

I believe no computer, so even if you remove all batteries and electronics, it'd still do something. I assume there's power assist but still for brakes completely go out would require serious mechanical problem.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Not sure I agree with this. I have a car with nearly 1000hp (yes, it's a highly modified one...) and regardless of speed, the brakes can slow the car from pretty much ANY speed, regardless of whether the throttle is closed or 100% open.

Brake fade CAN happen, but only if the brakes have already been pushed hard and are very hot. But fade <> non-functional. The car WILL stop even with hot, faded brakes, even under full throttle on a super powerful engine. It just might not stop quite as fast. But it WILL stop. Properly working brakes, if pressed, will immediately begin slowing the car regardless of engine power, regardless of vehicle speed.

This is true as long as the brakes and braking system are sized responsibly. Generally, any even semi-maintained stock car should be fine, and any reasonably built modified car too.

If you upgrade some heavy 300hp car that came OEM with serviceable but not track ready brakes to 1000hp and neglect the brakes and try hitting both pedals at full speed, you're probably going to have a bad day though.

I've seen some nearly out of control vehicles due to brake fade on abused OEM pads that were never meant for aggressive driving... much as your clutch can become useless if it's already on it's last legs and you get it overheated. Having your clutch slip when trying to start a steep uphill from a stop light to the point that you're doing 3000 RPM or more as you're trying to start at a normal pace is no fun...

Anyways, my original point wasn't that an OEM vehicle (especially properly maintained) should ever end up in a situation where you could overpower the brakes, but that it isn't impossible to end up in a scenario where a vehicle might overpower the brakes.

I certainly don't think it plausible that any unmodified Tesla, bad shape or not, could overpower the brakes in the general case. I was just trying to point out since others had said it wasn't possible that it can be possible in certain scenarios, let's not forget the guy who took his stock 3 to the track and after a few laps had cooked the brakes so badly he could barely make it into the pit safely. Extraordinary circumstances and entirely outside any expected scenario for the car, but ...