Sudden Unintended Acceleration

[KlnAir4U]

Let's advocate to have the two pedals moved a foot apart and that we will use two-foot driving. Right foot uses the accelerator, left foot uses the brake pedal.

Perhaps, a few of us could have our car mechanic move the brake pedal over. Now that we don't have a clutch pedal, we can use both feet to drive.

 

[rustybh1]

I'm more concerned about the sudden unintended breaking while traveling at 60 with autopilot engaged on the freeway.........

 

[Joelgjr]

I'm more concerned about the sudden unintended breaking while traveling at 60 with autopilot engaged on the freeway.........

hah.

 

[wk057]

This has been shared, but, seems it's worth a recap:

"But I had my foot on the brake the whole time!"

Um... no. No you didn't. And we don't even need the vehicle logs to prove it.

Let's do some post-watch quiz questions:

• When did the brake lights come on?
• When did the vehicle come to a stop?

If you answered anything along the lines of "far too long after they had their foot held on the accelerator pedal" and "immediately after braking", you win.



For more recap...

Repeat after me: THE BRAKES ARE AN INDEPENDENT SYSTEM. THE BRAKES CAN OVERPOWER EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL TESLA'S MOTORS.

If anyone claims they were braking and the car still accelerated, they're wrong, mistaken, and/or flat out lying.

 

[kimvellore]

For more recap...

Repeat after me: THE BRAKES ARE AN INDEPENDENT SYSTEM. THE BRAKES CAN OVERPOWER EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL TESLA'S MOTORS.

If anyone claims they were braking and the car still accelerated, they're wrong, mistaken, and/or flat out lying.

The car was accelerating when I braked and yes the brake overpowered the car and stopped it. It happened at speeds less than 10Mph. I am not sure if you are reading all the posts or just picking for ridicule!.

There is always two sides to the story, for the "closed minded" people here is something to read, I saw it on Quora but every time the manufacturers deny responsibility no matter who is at fault.

• Audi Sudden Acceleration - Center for Autosafety
• Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’
• Opinion | Sudden Acceleration Often Caused By Drivers
• Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect
• Cars Gone Wild: The Major Contributor to Unintended Acceleration in Automobiles is Pedal Error
• NHTSA: No, Toyotas Do Not Suddenly Accelerate Unless You Press the Accelerator
• Your gateway to world-class journal research
• Lawsuit claims Ford 'design defect' can cause sudden acceleration
• https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfile...

 

[jlv1]

if this should happen to me, what emergency procedures should I be practicing and be prepared for, just in case?

If this should happen to you, first take your foot off the accelerator, because you probably have that mashed to the floor thinking it's the brake.

 

[jlv1]

Here is one of the articles on the NHTSA investigation.
Tesla Slams NHTSA's Unintended-Acceleration Investigation

Car And Driver calls it an investigation, but that doesn't make it one. NHTSA merely reports they received a petition asking for an investigation.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2020/INOA-DP20001-6030.PDF

A copy of the petition will be added to the public file for this defect petition and ODI will evaluate the petitioner's allegations to determine if the petition should be granted or denied. If the petition is granted, ODI will open a defect investigation; if the petition is denied, ODI will publish a notice in the Federal Register.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Hitting the park button in speeds over 5 mph results in the error beep and nothing happening, thanks to a number of brave individuals who have posted on you tube. You will not tear out the transmission.

You can't just "hit" it. You have to hold in the park button at speeds above 5 mph for it to act as the emergency brake and stop the car.

 

[mbp11]

MorrisonHiker, thanks. I did some very brief and superficial scanning of some you tube videos to see if someone else did this to their car and found this:

It looked like the car stopped when the button was pushed at speeds under 5 mph but did nothing at higher speeds. The video showed above 5 mph the error tone sounded but nothing happened.

I am too afraid to try it in my car.

This topic is very interesting. Now I know what to do it there is unintended acceleration of my car:
1. take the foot off of the accelerator and push the brake
2. make sure autopilot is off (should be since the brake was pushed).

and then, there is always neutral, or hit the parking button.

What would happen if you turned the car off while driving?

Mike P

 

[Wooloomooloo]

I'm more concerned about the sudden unintended breaking while traveling at 60 with autopilot engaged on the freeway.........

This definitely happens less frequently than it did in 2018, but yes it's still a thing.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

MorrisonHiker, thanks. I did some very brief and superficial scanning of some you tube videos to see if someone else did this to their car and found this:

It looked like the car stopped when the button was pushed at speeds under 5 mph but did nothing at higher speeds. The video showed above 5 mph the error tone sounded but nothing happened.

I am too afraid to try it in my car.

This topic is very interesting. Now I know what to do it there is unintended acceleration of my car:
1. take the foot off of the accelerator and push the brake
2. make sure autopilot is off (should be since the brake was pushed).

and then, there is always neutral, or hit the parking button.

What would happen if you turned the car off while driving?

Mike P

Whenever we've tested it over 5 mph, it would always stop the car and show an error message "Emergency Brake Applied" on the screen.

Jump to 5:50 in this video and you can see it stops the car twice:

 

[Wooloomooloo]

The car was accelerating when I braked and yes the brake overpowered the car and stopped it. It happened at speeds less than 10Mph. I am not sure if you are reading all the posts or just picking for ridicule!.

There is always two sides to the story, for the "closed minded" people here is something to read, I saw it on Quora but every time the manufacturers deny responsibility no matter who is at fault.

• Audi Sudden Acceleration - Center for Autosafety
• Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’
• Opinion | Sudden Acceleration Often Caused By Drivers
• Doubt cast on Toyota's decision to blame sudden acceleration on gas pedal defect
• Cars Gone Wild: The Major Contributor to Unintended Acceleration in Automobiles is Pedal Error
• NHTSA: No, Toyotas Do Not Suddenly Accelerate Unless You Press the Accelerator
• Your gateway to world-class journal research
• Lawsuit claims Ford 'design defect' can cause sudden acceleration
• https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfile...

No one wants to admit they mistook the accelerator for the brake pedal, but the one non-sarcastic comment in the post you quoted is absolutely true for every single car that's legal on the street, which is this: there is no engine or motor, in any car, that can out-power a functioning braking system. No controlled test has ever done that, and the reason is that it would defy physics to do so.

That does not mean a given car cannot have a locked open throttle - hell in the 80's I had an old Austin Allegro that had the carb stuck open, but it was easy to bring to a stop.

I don't know why you voted down that post and then agreed with almost all of it.

 

[Texas]

It's probably related to why some people choose to turn on creep and some don't. If your driving experience is with auto transmissions, the lack of creep might lead to a confusion of where your right foot is at right now.

Also, I too noticed that once again someone joins the forum solely to post a doomsday scenario failure in their car with a story about how it's widespread despite none of us experiencing it.

I had two sudden unanticipated accelerations, both very scary, but neither of which did any damage. In both cases, I had "Creep Off" set. I suggest that "creep off" is the cause of many, or perhaps most, sudden accelerations that occur at very low speeds in parking lots, parking garages or at home. If the Tesla driver previously drove an ICE car with an automatic transmission, he or she had naturally become accustomed to the car propelling itself at about 3-5 mph with no foot on the accelerator; instead, the driver would keep his foot lightly placed on the brake so he could apply it if needed. With this ingrained habit, the driver with "creep off" drives along with slight pressure on the accelerator instead of the brake. Then, when an unexpected surprise occurs, his instinctive move is to apply the "brake pedal" which turns out to be the accelerator!! Now we have a power launch, not a brake action, with bad results, of course.

In my two examples, I was driving in parking garages and hit unseen low curbs in unexpected places. In each case, my foot went down hard--on the accelerator unfortunately, not the brake--and I power launched my Ludicrous enabled P85D forward. Thankfully, there was nothing in front of me to collide with, for the result would have been serious. These two events made be think hard about why the sudden accelerations occurred, and I concluded that turning "Creep On" would move my foot to the brake and away from the accelerator. It worked. I have had no further problems.

 

[Chaserr]

suggest that "creep off" is the cause of many, or perhaps most, sudden accelerations that occur at very low speeds in parking lots, parking garages or at home

I suggest "creep on" is the cause of many, or perhaps most, sudden accelerations that occur at very low speeds in parking lots, parking garages or at home. With creep off the car ceases accelerating whenever you aren't using a pedal, with creep on you have to brake hard enough to overcome creep - or accelerate in pedal misapplication.

To be honest I doubt it's either I just suggest the opposite is equally true. Creep on or off, people will occasionally use the wrong pedal and accelerate unintentionally.

 

[FatherTo1]

This has been shared, but, seems it's worth a recap:

"But I had my foot on the brake the whole time!"

Um... no. No you didn't. And we don't even need the vehicle logs to prove it.

Let's do some post-watch quiz questions:

• When did the brake lights come on?
• When did the vehicle come to a stop?

If you answered anything along the lines of "far too long after they had their foot held on the accelerator pedal" and "immediately after braking", you win.



For more recap...

Repeat after me: THE BRAKES ARE AN INDEPENDENT SYSTEM. THE BRAKES CAN OVERPOWER EVEN THE MOST POWERFUL TESLA'S MOTORS.

If anyone claims they were braking and the car still accelerated, they're wrong, mistaken, and/or flat out lying.

Holy smokes that is scary for the sidewalk pedestrians, especially the guy that was almost smeared against the wall.

I wonder what it must have been like inside the X. I would think airbags would deploy after the initial hit, thus making it difficult to steer at all. The car only stops at the end after we see the brake lights. I thought AP is supposed to apply the brakes automatically to decrease the imminent impact but I didnt see auto-brake lights before the first hit. You'd think there we be all sorts of alarms going on inside the car warning about getting too close to the parked truck. So many questions about that video.

Automakers should just install cameras in the driver's footwell and record the pedals at all times. Folks don't want to believe logs or how brake systems are designed. Well, hard to argue with video of your feet.

 

[tranzndance]

I had two sudden unanticipated accelerations, both very scary, but neither of which did any damage. In both cases, I had "Creep Off" set. I suggest that "creep off" is the cause of many, or perhaps most, sudden accelerations that occur at very low speeds in parking lots, parking garages or at home. If the Tesla driver previously drove an ICE car with an automatic transmission, he or she had naturally become accustomed to the car propelling itself at about 3-5 mph with no foot on the accelerator; instead, the driver would keep his foot lightly placed on the brake so he could apply it if needed. With this ingrained habit, the driver with "creep off" drives along with slight pressure on the accelerator instead of the brake. Then, when an unexpected surprise occurs, his instinctive move is to apply the "brake pedal" which turns out to be the accelerator!! Now we have a power launch, not a brake action, with bad results, of course.

In my two examples, I was driving in parking garages and hit unseen low curbs in unexpected places. In each case, my foot went down hard--on the accelerator unfortunately, not the brake--and I power launched my Ludicrous enabled P85D forward. Thankfully, there was nothing in front of me to collide with, for the result would have been serious. These two events made be think hard about why the sudden accelerations occurred, and I concluded that turning "Creep On" would move my foot to the brake and away from the accelerator. It worked. I have had no further problems.

How would you explain the SUA in cars that only have creep on?

 

[Battpower]

I had two sudden unanticipated accelerations, both very scary, but neither of which did any damage. In both cases, I had "Creep Off" set. I suggest that "creep off" is the cause of many, or perhaps most, sudden accelerations that occur at very low speeds in parking lots, parking garages or at home. If the Tesla driver previously drove an ICE car with an automatic transmission, he or she had naturally become accustomed to the car propelling itself at about 3-5 mph with no foot on the accelerator; instead, the driver would keep his foot lightly placed on the brake so he could apply it if needed. With this ingrained habit, the driver with "creep off" drives along with slight pressure on the accelerator instead of the brake. Then, when an unexpected surprise occurs, his instinctive move is to apply the "brake pedal" which turns out to be the accelerator!! Now we have a power launch, not a brake action, with bad results, of course.

In my two examples, I was driving in parking garages and hit unseen low curbs in unexpected places. In each case, my foot went down hard--on the accelerator unfortunately, not the brake--and I power launched my Ludicrous enabled P85D forward. Thankfully, there was nothing in front of me to collide with, for the result would have been serious. These two events made be think hard about why the sudden accelerations occurred, and I concluded that turning "Creep On" would move my foot to the brake and away from the accelerator. It worked. I have had no further problems.

I like that suggestion. That's not how I think of the pedals when I drive an ICE auto though. Just cuz my foot is hovering over / nearly on the brake, I'm not thinking 'press to go', but I do recognizer that as far as the mechanics and 'muscle memory' / instinct, slow speed manoeuvres are often made with foot over brake rather than foot over accelerator. So your brain just says 'press to stop' assuming your foot is over the brake.

I bet stick drivers haven't had any such problems.

 

[sixela]

. I thought AP is supposed to apply the brakes automatically to decrease the imminent impact

Firstly: these are the safety features and do not require AP to be engaged. Secondly: they will not activate at the fairly low speeds you can see in the videos. Rightly or wrongly, the car decides that at this speed your reaction lag isn't as dramatic and that any accidents at this speed are easily survivable (at least for the driver -- I wouldn't want to be a pedestrian in the immediate vicinity), and that you should thus be better informed than it about what to do.

 

[jlv1]

How would you explain the SUA in cars that only have creep on?

There doesn't need to be one explanation for multiple different instances.

 

[Chaserr]

There doesn't need to be one explanation for multiple different instances.

I agree, creep on or off doesn't matter. People make mistakes and forget which pedal their foot is on. Blaming creep or no creep is as pointless as blaming the car for having a mind of its own. Pedal misapplication happens to people all of the time, and we just happen to have one of the few cars that lets us choose whether or not to creep - and from the anecdotal evidence it appears creep doesn't play any part.