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Peer pressure didn't help handicapped parking--it took fines and towing over several years. And my guess is that there are more people sympathetic to handicapped than there are people sympathetic to EV driving needs. Peer pressure works best within a group where everyone wants to be respected by others in the group. It doesn't work for those outside the group who could care less about those in any particular group.
Dialogues and education work with reasonable people.
Those who are using more than most can probably be classified into three groups: 1) Those who have no home charging. 2) Those who are cheap and don't value their time. 3) Those who drive more than most. Groups 1 and 3 are not a problem--and it would be a big problem if they were considered a problem. It's group 2 that needs to change.
cpa
Active Member
My sister-in-law has a real good friend. Her friend and her husband put down a deposit on a Model 3. I was talking to them recently about the Model 3, and they were intrigued by the Atascadero Supercharger, because they travel from Fresno to the Central Coast frequently. The Atascadero Supercharger was one of the compelling reasons that they are taking the plunge.
Recently, one of them remarked that it was cool that the Atascadero Supercharger was close to the movies, so that they could catch a movie while plugged in on their trip to or from the Coast.
I nicely informed them that the Superchargers were for charging, not parking, and that it was courteous to leave promptly upon attaining the desired state of charge.
They understood, and they agreed. But they said that they had driven past them on a few occasions, and that they were either unoccupied or only had two or three stalls in use.
Recently, one of them remarked that it was cool that the Atascadero Supercharger was close to the movies, so that they could catch a movie while plugged in on their trip to or from the Coast.
I nicely informed them that the Superchargers were for charging, not parking, and that it was courteous to leave promptly upon attaining the desired state of charge.They understood, and they agreed. But they said that they had driven past them on a few occasions, and that they were either unoccupied or only had two or three stalls in use.
That's how most Supercharger, EV charging, and handicapped spaces are. Unfortunately, that logic always leads to people that need to use those spaces unable to use them, which is why fines and towing had to be mandated for handicapped spaces (and some states are doing the same for EV charging). For movie theatres and other "more than 45 minutes to an hour" activities destination charging is the correct charging to have. At 80 amps an HPWC can add quite a bit of range in the time it takes to see a movie.
I agree. I'm not suggesting there shouldn't be a tangible cost for abuse; there needs to be. But I also don't want to leave groups 1 and 3 with a bad taste in their mouth for doing what they need to do. Those who need the service would probably accept a reasonable "fee", but it would also undermine the cheap and rude. They would likely see a fee as a fine, and rightly so... Then they might listen to a little education, or get P'd off enough go elsewhere.
Garlan Garner
Banned
What was your response?My sister-in-law has a real good friend. Her friend and her husband put down a deposit on a Model 3. I was talking to them recently about the Model 3, and they were intrigued by the Atascadero Supercharger, because they travel from Fresno to the Central Coast frequently. The Atascadero Supercharger was one of the compelling reasons that they are taking the plunge.
Recently, one of them remarked that it was cool that the Atascadero Supercharger was close to the movies, so that they could catch a movie while plugged in on their trip to or from the Coast.
They understood, and they agreed. But they said that they had driven past them on a few occasions, and that they were either unoccupied or only had two or three stalls in use.
There is probably no one best solution. I can see a variety of options to choose from. I would like one to be the $ per KW. I believe, however, they should double the charge cost for SC's within 50 or so miles of its home and reduce the cost beyond that distance. If it works out financially, long distance free would be desirable.
In this way you penalize people using SC's to charge when they could/should of done it at home. This should free up local SC's. Also it rewards long distance travelers, which the program is intended for.
I think having one hour max time at a charging stall would be a reasonable solution to overcrowding. Most of the time I am done in less than 30 minutes, but if you are going off the supercharger highway you might need max range and a one hour limit would be useful then.
The problem with this is that right now it would discourage apartment and condo dwellers. I guess Tesla could create a "Condo" card (similar to a handicapped card) to display so that folks would know it's legit.
The Condo problem is a chicken-and-egg situation. Condo and apartment owners won't change unless there is a strong demand and there won't be a strong demand unless condo and apartment dwellers start driving EVs. They won't drive EVs if they can't have reasonable access to charging, which includes nearby Superchargers. So penalizing those who charge within 50 miles is very bad PR. Also, although I never charge at the nearby SC, If I was coming back from a trip and was low I'd be really ticked off if I had to pay for a ten minute stop to give me enough to get home just because the SC was within 50 miles of my house.
The real answer is more SCs, which will come eventually, not penalizing people for charging. And no matter what system you devise there will always be jerks. You can't legislate against jerks--just look at the current Congress and Senate.
Garlan Garner
Banned
I love your post and agree with 100% of it. Especially the concern for Apartment and Condo owners.
Will it be a strong demand if the condo and apartment dwellers has a solution on their charging problem? I think the strongest demand for this would be if the dwellers tells the owners that "We need a charging solution, or we have to move out of/do not move into your condo/apartment".
know of 1 apartment dweller that had a discreet 10 guage extension cord running to their vehicle.
I partly disagree. Yes, they will probably own the car if they consider to move in to a condo/apartment, but this will also happen if they live there and want to drive/own an BEV (if they check for their possibility to charge it before buying). So no, we do not necessarily need a situation where the condo/apartments dweller owns an BEV before they put the pressure on the owners.
Of course it would depend on price. Yes, if you could get a day pass for $10 vs $14 for two charging sessions it would make sense. However, I don't see Tesla giving away money like that. It is much easier to just have people pay for what they use, it is also easier from an accounting standpoint, as well as in determining if a car is authorized to charge. Do they have credits? Yes or no, simple. No worrying about the date, or time of day, what month it is, or anything else.
The referral program is a reward for people that generate sales for Tesla. It is no way similar to Tesla deliberatley giving money back for something people have already paid for and have no expectation of receiving back.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Or would it be easier to charge a flat rate for any charge regardless of energy...
This would cause people to charge using a supercharger only when they need it and potentially ease congestion at the expense of slightly longer charging times.
Although that could lead to higher incidence of stranded EVs on the road giving EVs a bad name if people aren't responsible enough to charge when they need to.
The rate would have to be based on the price per kwh at the time charged. Prices could vary from 8 cents a kwh to 50 cents a kwh in some areas. Too many variables
Garlan Garner
Banned
It might also make people wait until they needed it the most in order to maximize their spending, resulting in longer charge times ....
Ultimately there is no perfect solution that will solve all the possible issues or make all of the people happy. They'll come up with the best one they can and I'm sure most of us will get along just fine. Of course, there will always be those unhappy few, but then again, they are usually never satisfied so they can be discounted
cpa
Active Member
To me a real easy approach would be for Tesla to sell unlimited usage for one day, three day, seven day, month and 90 days, for example. This skirts the per kWh restriction in those states where Tesla is not registered as a public utility. Perhaps the three-day subscription would be valid for any three days in a seven-day period, and the seven day subscription would be good for any seven days in a two week period. (Or maybe that would be too complicated.) Lotsa people travel to a destination and stay for a week or so. But they only need Supercharging to reach and return from their destination.
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