-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Supercharger cost (Ontario Generally) vs Home Charging (Toronto)
- Thread starter Birdman325
- Start date
pcons
M3 AWD+
Strange....by the minute or by the khw you are still paying for electricity, but loopholes are called that for a reason
At least it's an explanation as to why all chargers are this way in ontario. Having owned a volt for 4 years, which is limited to a 3 kw charge rates, it has never made any sense to use one of the public stations that charge by time since their rates are based off of cars that can charge 2-3x faster. Couple that with the fact that they usually charge a few $ per hour, and it never makes sense to charge a volt there since gas is cheaper in that comparison since you end up paying almost 10x the cost of charging at home.
@mknox knows the details on this. He used to work for an electrical utility. Here is a post he made on this subject: Canadian supercharger rates
"Not sure about Alberta, but in Ontario, the OEB regulates the sector and you have to be a licensed retailer to sell electricity by the kWh, but you don't necessarily have to be a utility."
"Not sure about Alberta, but in Ontario, the OEB regulates the sector and you have to be a licensed retailer to sell electricity by the kWh, but you don't necessarily have to be a utility."
pcons
M3 AWD+
Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying. So tier 1 is any speed up to 60 kw, and 2 is up to 120 kw...so just for fun (and cause I'm working this out as I type) let's say on average you get 90 kw for tier 2 and 50 for tier 1 (random numbers) that would have been 26/60 x 90 = 39kwh + 9/60 x 50 = 7.5 kwh, so total of about 46.5 kwh....
Since the supercharging is direct DC can you assume minimal charging loss into the battery? (Unlike L2 charging, which typically has a 15-20% loss from wall to battery..)
So, assuming the above the avg cost per kwh for that session was 12.21/46.5 = $0.26/kwh...actually not bad then. About 2x home use off peak, but makes me more likely to use it at that price...when I eventually get my car that is
Where I am in S. Ont., the off-peak rate is presently about 9.435 cents, all in. That includes all the per kWh charges plus taxes. It does not include fixed charges that occur regardless of how much energy you draw. I'm led to believe that across S. Ont. the rates are similar --- but you have to do several calculations to get the right rate, and the data you need probably aren't all on your electricity bill.
(In 2016, the off-peak cost here was 13.609 cents.)
(In 2016, the off-peak cost here was 13.609 cents.)
Last edited:
I offer a few more corrections, from my experience, which includes driving a Tesla for four years and metering the electricity at home for two:
1. The electricity price at home off peak is probably not 10% of the gasoline price. For the Model S it seems in the 20% range if gasoline is at about $1.30 and you compare to a gasoline car of similar size.
2. The loss going from AC to the car isn't likely near 20%. Comparing my metering to what the car indicates (again, an S), the loss varies a lot depending on conditions but seems to average 10%. The car doesn't indicate electricity use for anything but km, and that's an approximation. So 10% may not be right, but it's probably closer than 15%.
3. Some states allow SCh rates to go by the kWh but many do not. No province does, AFAIK, for the reasons Mike Knox has discussed.
Kudos to the people trying to figure out what the true SCh electricity cost is in Ontario. It does seem different for the Model 3, which I haven't charged.
1. The electricity price at home off peak is probably not 10% of the gasoline price. For the Model S it seems in the 20% range if gasoline is at about $1.30 and you compare to a gasoline car of similar size.
2. The loss going from AC to the car isn't likely near 20%. Comparing my metering to what the car indicates (again, an S), the loss varies a lot depending on conditions but seems to average 10%. The car doesn't indicate electricity use for anything but km, and that's an approximation. So 10% may not be right, but it's probably closer than 15%.
3. Some states allow SCh rates to go by the kWh but many do not. No province does, AFAIK, for the reasons Mike Knox has discussed.
Kudos to the people trying to figure out what the true SCh electricity cost is in Ontario. It does seem different for the Model 3, which I haven't charged.
Whisky
Member
With the recent road trip, we went about 5000km/3000miles from Toronto down to New Orleans, Florida, and then back-up. There were a few instances where we used a wall-plug to help charge the model 3, but this trip was almost entirely supported by superchargers. The total bill came-out to just under $120 US. Some states had the cheaper charge options, but many had the two-tiered like in Canada. As others have said on the forum, we never needed to go to 100% charge and keeping the car between 20% to 80% is much cheaper than the gas would have been spent on this trip (because of how long it takes to charge from between 80% to 100%).
Most places, at peak charge-rates, we consistently received 700km/h of charging and then it gradually went down as we got closer to 80% power.
Most places, at peak charge-rates, we consistently received 700km/h of charging and then it gradually went down as we got closer to 80% power.
So, assuming the above the avg cost per kwh for that session was 12.21/46.5 = $0.26/kwh...actually not bad then. About 2x home use off peak, but makes me more likely to use it at that price...when I eventually get my car that is
I think your arithmetic is pretty close. I don't recall exactly, but I probably charged from 15% / 20% to ~80%. So around 60% of the battery was charged. 75 kWh X ~60% = ~45kWh.
mknox
Well-Known Member
You also need to realize that Supercharger stations are large commercial electric services and will attract Demand Charges from the utility that supplies the electricity. Demand Charges can be higher than the volumetric Energy (kWh) charges on these types of services. It is not really an apples-to-apples comparison to your home residential electricity rate.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Supercharged at the Sherway Garden SC yesterday morning. Did a few minutes under 60kW with a white Model X plugged in a few stalks down. After they left, it was 72kW for the rest of the time.
Did a search and found we're charged base on time @ x kW. So above 60kW = $0.40/min while under 60kW = $0.20/min.
I stopped it at $15.00 CAD and got about 285kms. Total charge time was ~30 minutes? So lets say there was a 5% lost. $5.00/100km is roughly half the cost of gas at the station for that same 100km on my Honda Civic; not bad. Can't wait to get the home charger online and see even more savings off peak overnight.
Did a search and found we're charged base on time @ x kW. So above 60kW = $0.40/min while under 60kW = $0.20/min.
I stopped it at $15.00 CAD and got about 285kms. Total charge time was ~30 minutes? So lets say there was a 5% lost. $5.00/100km is roughly half the cost of gas at the station for that same 100km on my Honda Civic; not bad. Can't wait to get the home charger online and see even more savings off peak overnight.
Similar threads
