Supercharger - Haymarket, VA

[paulkva]

The bad news is with the winter cold having a charger at Haymarket still isn't the solution to my trip to Frederick, MD. I stopped on the way north and charged to about 220 miles. The trip to Frederick was 55 miles, driving around Frederick was under 60 miles and a 50 mile return trip. Let's see, hmmm... carry the 1... that gives 165 miles. You would think I could make it back to Haymarket... nope. I once again had to stop in Leesburg to spend over half an hour at a destination charger which was shared with someone else so I only got 40 amps. Even then I barely made it to Haymarket with 2%/6 miles in the battery. I think the last few miles had limitations on my acceleration. The same dotted lines you see on the regen portion of the energy display appeared on the consumption portion of the display above 200 kW or so.

I don't want to stray too far off-topic for this thread, but have you looked at charging options in Frederick? I've charged at the Marriott TownePlace Suites (PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You) in the past -- before there were superchargers between DC and Pittsburgh! -- and on PlugShare it looks like there are a few other decent options, mostly south of I-70. If you're staying somewhere overnight, even using a 120V outlet could prevent you from having to make an extra stop in Leesburg.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

I stopped to charge and not only can they move the lines, they already did! Looks like they covered the old lines with a splash of cement material.

The bad news is with the winter cold having a charger at Haymarket still isn't the solution to my trip to Frederick, MD. I stopped on the way north and charged to about 220 miles. The trip to Frederick was 55 miles, driving around Frederick was under 60 miles and a 50 mile return trip. Let's see, hmmm... carry the 1... that gives 165 miles. You would think I could make it back to Haymarket... nope. I once again had to stop in Leesburg to spend over half an hour at a destination charger which was shared with someone else so I only got 40 amps. Even then I barely made it to Haymarket with 2%/6 miles in the battery. I think the last few miles had limitations on my acceleration. The same dotted lines you see on the regen portion of the energy display appeared on the consumption portion of the display above 200 kW or so.

Somehow I managed to wait the hour or so for the car to get charged up to 90% because I wanted to test the idle fee feature. There was only one other car at the pump when the charge completed and I didn't get charged a fee even after waiting for 10 minutes. On the other hand, I didn't get any notifications on the phone that the charge was nearing or reached completion... at least not while I was actually there. I now see notifications are on my phone.

Did you have your heat cranking the whole time? Based on what you wrote I would think you would easily make it. Starting and stopping with the heat can really chew up the battery.

I drive a similar route from Chantilly to Frederick twice a week. I leave with 223 miles(90%) and typically return with 70-100 miles depending on the weather and heat use. while our travel distance is the exact same at 105, I only run around 15 miles in town. I keep the heat around 68-70. Two of us in the car. heated seats on lowest setting whole time. Worst case I might have used 160 miles in all the cold weather driving round trip. Had to run the defrosters whole time a couple weeks ago.

 

[scaesare]

To charge while parked correctly the hose has to be rather kinked.]

Yeah, that could restrict the electron flow...

lol.

 

[boaterva]

Somehow I managed to wait the hour or so for the car to get charged up to 90% because I wanted to test the idle fee feature. There was only one other car at the pump when the charge completed and I didn't get charged a fee even after waiting for 10 minutes. On the other hand, I didn't get any notifications on the phone that the charge was nearing or reached completion... at least not while I was actually there. I now see notifications are on my phone.

Uh.... I thought idle fees were only charged when a location was more than half full or whatever? No?

 

[SpudLime]

Uh.... I thought idle fees were only charged when a location was more than half full or whatever? No?

That is correct. The problem is that what tesla sees via their computer is usually different than what is actually true.

Test it yourself. Go to any supercharger and then bring up the supercharger in the car or your app. Most of the time what is shown is way off than actual.

 

[gnuarm]

I don't want to stray too far off-topic for this thread, but have you looked at charging options in Frederick? I've charged at the Marriott TownePlace Suites (PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You) in the past -- before there were superchargers between DC and Pittsburgh! -- and on PlugShare it looks like there are a few other decent options, mostly south of I-70. If you're staying somewhere overnight, even using a 120V outlet could prevent you from having to make an extra stop in Leesburg.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, I've seen that charger. I tried to use it once but they couldn't turn it on remotely and I didn't have a Charge Point account. Or maybe I was doing something wrong. I think that was my first attempt at charging other than home and Superchargers. I ended up using a Charge Point at the train station nearby. I was lucky as it is usually occupied by commuters using the train. There are a number of these Level 2 chargers around, but I'd have to leave the car there for hours. I charged at my friends house (where I stay) once, but it's rather a hassle so I don't do that regularly. Oh, just so you know, the one fast charger in Frederick is a Chademo that won't work with the Tesla adapter and my car. It seems to be a bit too high tech for the store to figure out, so I'll leave that one for the Leaf owners.

Haymarket is a godsend in many ways. I'm usually in more of a hurry headed north but I'll just have to take the time to get a full 90% charge on the way north, then I should be ok. That extra 30 miles would have gotten me back to Haymarket.

Looking at Google maps the only breakfast place I see is Hidden Julies Cafe about half a mile away. But I'm often going to Frederick to have lunch with a friend. lol The other night I just hung around the Sheetz for an hour. Not so much fun. I did send photos of the Sheetz restaurant. Haute cuisine indeed!

 

[gnuarm]

Did you have your heat cranking the whole time? Based on what you wrote I would think you would easily make it. Starting and stopping with the heat can really chew up the battery.

I drive a similar route from Chantilly to Frederick twice a week. I leave with 223 miles(90%) and typically return with 70-100 miles depending on the weather and heat use. while our travel distance is the exact same at 105, I only run around 15 miles in town. I keep the heat around 68-70. Two of us in the car. heated seats on lowest setting whole time. Worst case I might have used 160 miles in all the cold weather driving round trip. Had to run the defrosters whole time a couple weeks ago.

Yes, the trip up and back seemed pretty normal. But that morning when I drove two or three miles to Costco I had ZERO regenerative braking and I realized why it is cheaper to run an electric car than a gas car even if both are powered from petroleum. The gas car tosses all it's energy when you hit the brakes. With regen I barely ever hit the brake pedal other than the final 20 feet and if it's on cruise control not even then. I think I used about twice the distance in range miles. I'd be willing to bet that is the main reason why it is cheaper to fuel an electric car. So it was definitely the short trips with a cold battery that was the problem and that's why I really need a Supercharger in Frederick... but that's another thread, lol

Oh yeah, I usually have the temp set to the mid 60's and one seat on level 1, but my left leg gets cold when it is really cold outside. Then I have to crank the fan and the temp a bit. I'm not sure the heater actually blows much air to the floor even with only the lower vents open. I'm wondering if there is a bit of an air leak around the door, but I can't feel it with my hand.

 

[paulkva]

I charged at my friends house (where I stay) once, but it's rather a hassle so I don't do that regularly...
I'm usually in more of a hurry headed north but I'll just have to take the time to get a full 90% charge on the way north, then I should be ok...

Yes, the trip up and back seemed pretty normal. But that morning when I drove two or three miles to Costco I had ZERO regenerative braking...

One additional advantage of plugging in overnight -- the battery is a bit warmer in the morning. So, not only do you get 25+ miles from charging, you also gain a bit of regen efficiency on your first trip of the day. I don't know how much of a hassle it is to plug in at your friend's house, but depending on the specifics, you can weigh that against the hour +/- you'd have to spend at most L2 chargers, or against the extra 10-20 minutes you'd have to spend at Haymarket on your way up north.

 

[gnuarm]

One additional advantage of plugging in overnight -- the battery is a bit warmer in the morning. So, not only do you get 25+ miles from charging, you also gain a bit of regen efficiency on your first trip of the day. I don't know how much of a hassle it is to plug in at your friend's house, but depending on the specifics, you can weigh that against the hour +/- you'd have to spend at most L2 chargers, or against the extra 10-20 minutes you'd have to spend at Haymarket on your way up north.

Maybe I haven't looked closely enough, but I can't say I've seen much difference between no charging and 120 volt charging when it comes to the battery temp. I wish I could pull info out of the car easily. I seem to recall there is an app for that, but I'm not sure how easy it is to use. I know it can provide a real time display, but collecting data for analysis I'm not so sure.

 

[jthompson]

And now we get back to the point of this thread...the Haymarket supercharger. Was there last night for my first time. Enjoyed a quick 15 minute charge and coffee - I like the location of the chargers, which is away from the main flow of traffic into and out of Sheetz.

 

[boaterva]

That is correct. The problem is that what tesla sees via their computer is usually different than what is actually true.

Test it yourself. Go to any supercharger and then bring up the supercharger in the car or your app. Most of the time what is shown is way off than actual.

Hate to hijack further but what does this have to do with the post I responded to? It said there was one other person there with no data about what the app/display showed. If it did show it was over half full then sure.

 

[SpudLime]

Hate to hijack further but what does this have to do with the post I responded to? It said there was one other person there with no data about what the app/display showed. If it did show it was over half full then sure.

Sorry I misread. A lot of other threads recently about getting charged an idle fee when it wasn’t half full but Tesla said it was.

Must have read the comment too fast and thought the op said the same thing.

 

[gnuarm]

Uh.... I thought idle fees were only charged when a location was more than half full or whatever? No?

Yes, that's what they say. I got a warning notice that I would have been charged idle fees a while back when I am pretty sure there were no other cars at the charger. This was in Rocky Mount, NC on a business trip. I parked to charge while we took bags into the hotel and killed some time. I received a "nearing charge completed" notice but no actual completed notice. I didn't get back out until 15 minutes after it had finished and there were no cars for sure. Once I got back to the room I found an email saying I would have been charged, but this was just a warning.

So I waited at the Haymarket station to see if I would be charged a fee. That time I was there when it finished and even took a picture of all the pumps, lol.

The fee for idle parking is one thing. But it appears there is no redress if you have been inaccurately charged. Worse, you can be cut off from Supercharging if it isn't paid before you need another charge. On a trip this could strand you under the right circumstances.

 

[gnuarm]

On a trip this could strand you under the right circumstances.

I can't tell you how much this bothers me. If I am ever stranded because of Tesla's incompetence I will sell the car and make sure everyone I talk to about Tesla knows about this.

 

[Reddy Kilowatt]

gnuarm

I ran up to Frederick twice this weekend. I used 140 miles round trip both days. 110 driving 30 for Heat? My average energy chart was in the 280 to 340 KWH range depending on when I was checking it. I kept heat at 70 the whole time.

I had thought about it and this is with my S. I took our X up one time and it did use more milage. I don't know what the efficiency different between the two cars.

I don't know which way you are traveling but could you detour and go via Hagerstown or Gaithersburg Super Chargers. I have gone home via Gaithersburg when I run by Vienna in the evening. I know it is more mileage but it would still be shorter than camping around a level 2 charger.

Can you put the car in range mode for that leg of the trip?

 

[gnuarm]

gnuarm

I ran up to Frederick twice this weekend. I used 140 miles round trip both days. 110 driving 30 for Heat? My average energy chart was in the 280 to 340 KWH range depending on when I was checking it. I kept heat at 70 the whole time.

I had thought about it and this is with my S. I took our X up one time and it did use more milage. I don't know what the efficiency different between the two cars.

I don't know which way you are traveling but could you detour and go via Hagerstown or Gaithersburg Super Chargers. I have gone home via Gaithersburg when I run by Vienna in the evening. I know it is more mileage but it would still be shorter than camping around a level 2 charger.

Can you put the car in range mode for that leg of the trip?

Thanks for the suggestions. I made the trip north today and the mileage was horrible. Left Lake Anna with ~250 miles (it was in energy mode showing 89%) and had 160 miles at Haymarket. I am typically rushed when making the northern trip and today very much so. I only stopped in Haymarket long enough to add 20 miles to make it 180. The problem with charging at that point is I still have over half a tank left and charging is slowing down, it was about 76 kW. I didn't check the numbers on the chargers to make sure I wasn't on the same pair as someone else, but I'm pretty sure I've checked before and they are in sequency, 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B. I charged next to the handicap spot so I should have been on the pair to that one. 76 kW seems slow for being at 55%.

I made several short trips around Frederick and only have 40 miles left! I don't think I was impacted by the cold so much as it isn't so cold and other than when starting the day, the car never showed limited regen. So with about 170 miles of driving I managed to use about 80 kWh.... hmmm... let's try some math, that would be 470 kWh/mile. That seems genuinely crappy, especially considering the roads are mostly 55 and I would have driven around 62. The heater was set to 69 and I used one bar on my seat heater.

They have permits and site plans for a Supercharger in Frederick. So by summer when the Haymarket charger will do the job a lot better there should be a place in Frederick to charge. I will be doubly covered.

 

[MXFan]

Thanks for the suggestions. I made the trip north today and the mileage was horrible. Left Lake Anna with ~250 miles (it was in energy mode showing 89%) and had 160 miles at Haymarket. I am typically rushed when making the northern trip and today very much so. I only stopped in Haymarket long enough to add 20 miles to make it 180. The problem with charging at that point is I still have over half a tank left and charging is slowing down, it was about 76 kW. I didn't check the numbers on the chargers to make sure I wasn't on the same pair as someone else, but I'm pretty sure I've checked before and they are in sequency, 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B. I charged next to the handicap spot so I should have been on the pair to that one. 76 kW seems slow for being at 55%.

I made several short trips around Frederick and only have 40 miles left! I don't think I was impacted by the cold so much as it isn't so cold and other than when starting the day, the car never showed limited regen. So with about 170 miles of driving I managed to use about 80 kWh.... hmmm... let's try some math, that would be 470 kWh/mile. That seems genuinely crappy, especially considering the roads are mostly 55 and I would have driven around 62. The heater was set to 69 and I used one bar on my seat heater.

They have permits and site plans for a Supercharger in Frederick. So by summer when the Haymarket charger will do the job a lot better there should be a place in Frederick to charge. I will be doubly covered.

Thanks for the suggestions. I made the trip north today and the mileage was horrible. Left Lake Anna with ~250 miles (it was in energy mode showing 89%) and had 160 miles at Haymarket. I am typically rushed when making the northern trip and today very much so. I only stopped in Haymarket long enough to add 20 miles to make it 180. The problem with charging at that point is I still have over half a tank left and charging is slowing down, it was about 76 kW. I didn't check the numbers on the chargers to make sure I wasn't on the same pair as someone else, but I'm pretty sure I've checked before and they are in sequency, 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B. I charged next to the handicap spot so I should have been on the pair to that one. 76 kW seems slow for being at 55%.

I made several short trips around Frederick and only have 40 miles left! I don't think I was impacted by the cold so much as it isn't so cold and other than when starting the day, the car never showed limited regen. So with about 170 miles of driving I managed to use about 80 kWh.... hmmm... let's try some math, that would be 470 kWh/mile. That seems genuinely crappy, especially considering the roads are mostly 55 and I would have driven around 62. The heater was set to 69 and I used one bar on my seat heater.

They have permits and site plans for a Supercharger in Frederick. So by summer when the Haymarket charger will do the job a lot better there should be a place in Frederick to charge. I will be doubly covered.

 

[MXFan]

The heater was set to 69 and I used one bar on my seat heater.

To get the most out of your battery in the winter, turn the heater off altogether and use the seat heater. Even 3 bars uses less energy than the cabin heater. Also, keep to 60 mph or less. Averaging more than that uses the battery more geometrically than linearly (because of wind resistance).

 

[paulkva]

I made several short trips

This, combined with cold weather, is likely the key problem. I did exactly that during my last two trips to NJ, and I found I was using up to 2x the energy that I usually need.

Like you said, though, it should all be a moot point for you once the Frederick supercharger comes online.

Re: Haymarket charging speed, 76 kW is perhaps a little lower than I'd expect with a battery at 55%, but not drastically so.

 

[gnuarm]

This, combined with cold weather, is likely the key problem. I did exactly that during my last two trips to NJ, and I found I was using up to 2x the energy that I usually need.

Like you said, though, it should all be a moot point for you once the Frederick supercharger comes online.

Re: Haymarket charging speed, 76 kW is perhaps a little lower than I'd expect with a battery at 55%, but not drastically so.

Unfortunately it is a bit of a pain to record usage over the various parts of a tank of energy to see where it is all going. The short trips this time were not very long and I saw no indication the battery was cold. The weather the last couple of days was mild for this time of year. So this is all frustrating.

I charged from 120 VAC last night and today I drove to a hike and back so I only had 30 miles left on the gauge. I was going to plug it into 120 VAC but someone asked me to pick up some things and people, so I drove the 25 miles to Gaithersburg to charge since that was closest and the car initially told me I would get there will only 1% spare. On reaching the charger I ended up with 3% (woo hoo) and plugged in. With such a low charge it took a few minutes before the rate ramped up and reached over 100 kW. This is a shopping area so I walked away to do some shopping with my car being the 7th out of 12 chargers. On returning with near 90% charged I saw two Teslas looking for a charger. One got a spot and I started talking to the guy who had just pulled in next to me. After a minute of chatting another Tesla pulled up and was waiting, so I ended the conversation and decided to leave with my then 89%. The guy's son pointed out that not one of the cars charging were model 3s!! I checked on the map and no where else in the area were the chargers even half full and many empty including Haymarket. Go figure.

The fact remains that charging is presently a PITA for Teslas. If there is a charger close, it may be busy and the vast majority of businesses still don't even have slow chargers. This will need to change dramatically for EVs to become mainstream.