Supercharger - Mammoth Lakes, CA - Old Mammoth Rd. (LIVE 24 Nov 2023, 12 V3 + 4 L2)

[Mrbrock]

Jeez. The striping here warrants immediate corrective action. Even from the one photo, it's easy to see how poorly this was done.

Sounds like every spot is the same size so if it’s to the local/state government requirements then they can’t change it. The question is whether the site plans and thus the charge post spacing were done to whatever minimum or if the painting contractor just did their standard width and didnt follow the plans.

 

[Doug Martoccia]

If there was a mismatch between the spacing of the SC stalls and the width of each parking space, wouldn't that have been readily apparent in the drawings that accompanied the permit for the work? This leads to three explanations.
1) This is the intended design and all contractors followed the drawings, which were unintentionally incorrect and nobody caught it
2) This is the intended design and all contractors followed the drawings, where were intentionally incorrect and everyone overlooked it
3) The striping contractor did not follow the drawings, messed up, and wasn't caught.

Maybe this won't matter much in the ski season when the mis-aligned striping is all covered in snow.

 

[Mrbrock]

If there was a mismatch between the spacing of the SC stalls and the width of each parking space, wouldn't that have been readily apparent in the drawings that accompanied the permit for the work? This leads to three explanations.
1) This is the intended design and all contractors followed the drawings, which were unintentionally incorrect and nobody caught it
2) This is the intended design and all contractors followed the drawings, where were intentionally incorrect and everyone overlooked it
3) The striping contractor did not follow the drawings, messed up, and wasn't caught.

Maybe this won't matter much in the ski season when the mis-aligned striping is all covered in snow.

It is unlikely the local government approved plans that didn’t have the right parking stall specs. Very likely the striping contractor was told to do all the spots X width which was more than what Tesla speced but Tesla wasn’t there to override. There was a recent WA site with the wrong striping that was changed a couple weeks later. Black paint over the original stripes. Then new ones 2 feet over.

 

[MountainRatMat]

Used the destination chargers this weekend. The striping shouldn't be too big of a deal since you have to park close enough to the plug to plug in. Agree they need to fix it but not too worried about it.

As for the destination charger, it cost $0.33/kwh whereas the supercharger cost $0.39/kwh and I could just leave my car overnight and pre-heat it while I walked over to pick it up in the morning. The location of the destination charger between the handicap stalls was odd but I used one on the other end of the lot.

I wish there was somewhere that told me the price before plugging in but that is a pretty minor complaint, I was happy to get lower cost charging for using the slower option.

It is great to have extra chargers in town!

 

[cpa]

The accountant in me concludes that all the R&D, materials, labor, and overhead for Superchargers only amounts to 6¢ more than a level 2 HPWC that retails for a couple of hundred. Sure, much of the construction benefits both types of installations and should be allocated accordingly. I would hazard a guess that the SC would require much more maintenance and repair costs than a 208V/48A AC installation. A six-cent per kilowatt-hour difference seems too low. I'd guess that the difference would be closer to a dime.

As Siegfried was known to say to Maxwell Smart, "I find that hard to believe!"

 

[MountainRatMat]

The accountant in me concludes that all the R&D, materials, labor, and overhead for Superchargers only amounts to 6¢ more than a level 2 HPWC that retails for a couple of hundred. Sure, much of the construction benefits both types of installations and should be allocated accordingly. I would hazard a guess that the SC would require much more maintenance and repair costs than a 208V/48A AC installation. A six-cent per kilowatt-hour difference seems too low. I'd guess that the difference would be closer to a dime.

As Siegfried was known to say to Maxwell Smart, "I find that hard to believe!"

I think your math is wrong and here is my explanation. You have to bill based on throughput not based on price per KWh.

I'm not going to get into the complex math but use some round numbers for simplicity. Let's say a car costs $20 each time it fills at a supercharger and costs $15 each time it fills at a destination charger. Let's also say the power required costs Tesla $10 per fill up.

A destination charger can charge 4 cars per 24 hours (6 hour charge time) and make $5 profit each charge, that would be $20 profit per day.

A supercharger can charge 50 cars per day (2 per hour) and make $500 profit per day.

No way you will get full utilization so let's assume 50% utilization for the destination chargers and 25% for the superchargers.

This means the destination chargers (4 plugs) are making $40 per day and the superchargers (12 stalls) are making $1500 per day.

The math works out pretty quickly there even if my numbers are an order of magnitude off.

 

[cpa]

Just to clarify, Mountain, I was not performing any math other than to compare the retail pricing. I approached this from a cost accounting perspective. (Granted, I took cost accounting in 1973, but nothing changes in this discipline.) Cost accountants do not perform retail cost analysis. That is left to others in the organization. Too many factors contribute to the selling prices of goods that have no basis in determining cost.

Let's also say the power required costs Tesla $10 per fill up.

I interpret this as your only consideration is the price Tesla pays to Edison for electricity. But charging stations have many more costs associated in delivering the electricity besides the price of juice. I would guess that just the material cost for one SC stall would be in excess of $10,000 while one HPWC is around $100. Installation labor will be more--a lot more. The cabinet with the rectifiers is unnecessary for the L2 charging. Superchargers require software and hardware that cost money to develop. Those costs do not apply to L2 charging. You have to make assumptions about usage and then amortize the actual construction costs plus anticipated ongoing costs over the estimated useful lives in order to determine the cost to deliver that kilowatt-hour of juice to your car. That cost for a kWh from a Supercharger is going to be a lot more than at a L2 charger, certainly more than six cents.

I agree that if SC usage were 5,000 kWh/week and L2 usage were 100 kWh/week, economies of scale will drive the Supercharger cost per unit down considerably. But I was not concerned with that when I made my comment. Truth is, no one knows what the usage will be over the course of a year.

 

[Tony8489]

Both this supercharger and the original one at Mammoth were charging at a snail like 40kW rate tonight. It took one hour to charge from 194 to 300 rated miles.

 

[4SUPER9]

Was your battery pre-warmed? For the old site, this one, it never seemed to matter. I always got a miserable rate, even when it was brand-spanking new. The new one worked well for me when I pre-warmed the battery, but once I did not, and the charge was terrible.

 

[cwang089]

Much like Bishop, this one has some less than ideal features. The superchargers are not completely lined up with the parking lines and to compound this, they decided to make all of the Tesla spots also general parking. While an improvement over the old SC, this will be a mess on busy weekendsView attachment 998769

I charged here on a busy week and it was fine. THere are also 2-4 chargers opposite to this row. And it opens up the old charging station. Preferably just get enough here to get you to Bishop as it is warmer there. If it is cold in Mammoth and you didnt pre-condition it can take a very long time even though these are 250kw.

It takes very little juice to make it back to Bishop as it is mostly downhill. In fact, charging to 90% is less efficient as you won't be able to use the regen

 

[MountainRatMat]

@Tony8489 the cold soaked battery is likely the cause. I usually charge right when I arrive in Mammoth while the battery is still warm.

Also, if you are coming from main lodge navigate to the supercharger and your battery will pre-condition enough to get faster charging rates.

I think they updated the UI to tell you if your battery is cold now and that you should expect slower charging rates.

 

[4SUPER9]

I think they updated the UI to tell you if your battery is cold now and that you should expect slower charging rates.

Yes, the UI did tell me that the first time I tried the new site, so I quit and came back later, setting the nav for that site. The charge rate was perfect the 2nd try.
Again, this first site has been horrible since day 1.

 

[Doug Martoccia]

Both this supercharger and the original one at Mammoth were charging at a snail like 40kW rate tonight. It took one hour to charge from 194 to 300 rated miles.

Just curious. Under what circumstance would you need to charge up here if you already had 194 rated miles? Headed north to Lake Tahoe?

 

[MountainRatMat]

Just curious. Under what circumstance would you need to charge up here if you already had 194 rated miles? Headed north to Lake Tahoe?

For many including me this is their destination. Arrive and charge to a full battery to use while in town.

Also, I like to leave town with a full battery to minimize number of stops on the road home.

Another scenario, lots of great places in town, why not enjoy them while your battery charges instead of being in a rush to continue on...it's not the destination, it's the journey.

...oh, and don't forget those that still like to charge full and don't realize that it isn't any faster to charge your battery full.

 

[cwang089]

I'm going up this week, and yes I do charge at the superchargers if I'm staying at a property that doesn't have a charger.

I'd rather go myself to fill up the charge before heading back down than have 3 other people wait while we fill up going down. Across a multiple day stay, I can find 30 mins to use up by myself to fill up to 90% before going back down. It's not the end of the world if I don't, I just drop the family off at Erik Schats while I charge on the way down.