Supercharger Scotch Corner Fine!

[Glan gluaisne]

I can get the make and model just by looking out of a window, an 'assumption' that all Tesla's are visiting the chargers is not legally good enough therefore the rules apply to everyone using the car park whether to charge or not.

I get that, but have a read of the post of mine you quoted, I made no mention at all of anything related to anything to do with the the law, legal action or whatever, never even entered my head.

All I have ever referred to was the fact that it would be easy to determine the make of any car arriving using the ANPR they already have, and use that to save Tesla owners having to manually book in, using a similar system to that which Parking Eye already use for cars that belong to hotel staff. Clearly it's not in their interest to make life more convenient to supercharger users at the moment, but there is a contract that exists between Tesla and the hotel, so treating Tesla's in the same way as hotel staff cars should be perfectly feasible, if there was a will to do it. Tesla could, for example, require that the hotel ensure penalty free use of the superchargers, if they wished. It may well be that their contract already includes a clause to this effect, for all we know, so it could just be that the hotel need reminding of the need to allow freedom of access, free from risk of penalty.

 

[Mr H]

I get that, but have a read of the post of mine you quoted, I made no mention at all of anything related to anything to do with the the law, legal action or whatever, never even entered my head.

All I have ever referred to was the fact that it would be easy to determine the make of any car arriving using the ANPR they already have, and use that to save Tesla owners having to manually book in, using a similar system to that which Parking Eye already use for cars that belong to hotel staff. Clearly it's not in their interest to make life more convenient to supercharger users at the moment, but there is a contract that exists between Tesla and the hotel, so treating Tesla's in the same way as hotel staff cars should be perfectly feasible, if there was a will to do it. Tesla could, for example, require that the hotel ensure penalty free use of the superchargers, if they wished. It may well be that their contract already includes a clause to this effect, for all we know, so it could just be that the hotel need reminding of the need to allow freedom of access, free from risk of penalty.

The reason the system works for hotel staff - and this is just a guess - is that they have been added manually, Just as owners are requested to do. They are not treated like hotel staff cars because they are not staff, simple really.
It is not as easy as you say to identify a make of car using private ANPR because they do not have an up to date database. I have just renewed my insurance and 3 of the sites i needed a quote from did not recognise my private registration number, which is why adding all Tesla's as charging will not work. I'll end this here.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

FWIW, we had ANPR on a car park at work, around 15 years ago. There was a white list for the registration of cars that were of no interest, so I'd bet that the hotel uses a similar system.

I've just put my private registration number into the Autotrader and Webuyanycar sites as a check, both came back with the full make and model, even the official DVLA site, here comes up with my car as a black Tesla: https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

 

[Leeshearer]

I charge here regularly and was caught out the first time when I arrived in the dark and it was snowing. I only just recently got the notice from parking eye as it got sent to my company. I have appealed, citing the laminated sheets stuck on by tape are not really sufficient and it is obvious due to location and time I was there that I was charging.
I have had to tell numerous drivers to go and register at reception as it is easy to miss at night.

 

[Leeshearer]

Out of interest has anyone has any luck with the hotel and getting them to cancel the charge?

 

[MangoRepublic]

Hello, i got the parking fine today. I had rented a tesla from UFODrive and charged at scotch corner. Has anyone been able to successfully appeal?

 

[cyrill666]

I've seen reports of the fine being cancelled after talking to the hotel directly for this location. Worth a shot.

As some superchargers appear to be on private property and/or require some additional action by the driver to avoid a penalty. I think it would be useful for the Tesla sat nav to carry a small note next to these locations as a screen popup on arrival. Saves looking around for (sometimes minimal) signage on a dark night in the rain.

 

[Mrklaw]

I was at Washington a couple of weeks ago. You get a window now where you don't have to register your car if you are charging it

that’d probably be enough at all of these locations. Just have a 60 minute window as anyone abusing a hotel car park is likely long stay so 60 minutes wouldn’t be worth it anyway

more advanced would be for Tesla to use your VIN to send your ref number to the hotel to be removed from the list.

 

[Cnixon]

that’d probably be enough at all of these locations. Just have a 60 minute window as anyone abusing a hotel car park is likely long stay so 60 minutes wouldn’t be worth it anyway

more advanced would be for Tesla to use your VIN to send your ref number to the hotel to be removed from the list.

From reading this thread it sounds like Parking Eye are probably paying the hotel to monitor their car park. If there is no reason to park there why would the hotel need to do this. How perverse is that. Interesting to check out their accounts to see if this is the case. The hotel will also be paid by Tesla so their may be a conflict of interest but doubt Tesla would wade in.

 

[Rustybkts]

I bet these vultures have sales personnel on the road calling at all hotels large and small with offers to "rectify illegal parking" and gain an income from a car park that is ostensively free for users.
Their CCTV will be based on just one cheap to install camera at the entrance which will be using the hotels internet with a couple of signs placed in obscure but not hidden positions.
Nothing expensive but the money then just rolls in. No wonder the hotel makes it difficult to cancel once "cought".

I wonder what Tesla's Supercharger agreement says. Unfortunately, Tesla UK are reticent about giving any assistance to its customers, even after their palms have been crossed with silver.
Maybe we need to start sending in complaint letters/Emails to Tesla to focus some minds. It will only get much worse as time moves on and sales increase.

 

[MrBadger]

A couple of years back I stayed at a hotel that hosted Tesla superchargers - whilst within the perimeter of the motorway services, it was quite distinct from the services so quite a walk to the foodhall etc. As a hotel 'resident' I had to register my car. I asked how this worked with Tesla charging and they said that there was a 2 hour grace period so if within that time, no registration required. Thats how it should be imho. However Services themselves have 2 hour grace period too, so may be linked to that system. Certainly don't spend 30 minutes supercharging then 2 hours in the services themselves - not that I can see how you may ever want to spend more time than is necessary at these services.

That was the Best Western at Michaelwood Services on M5. Things may have changed since Dec 2019 though and it was just the one receptionists take on the matter.

 

[majinate]

I just got caught out by this as well. Used Scotch corner loads of times in the past with no bother, so didn't even consider there'd be a problem. Hotel reception didn't want to know and referred me to ParkingEye's appeals procedure.

 

[Battpower]

I've been done twice by ParkingEye. Once having spent 12 minutes trying to pay by text in an empty pub carpark then leaving, and at Northampton. Late, in a rush, knew about the signs in advance but forgot.

What I don't get is how I can have free unlimited Supercharging if there are additional requirements and fines. I feel I have already transacted with Tesla and paid for a service that I am then being required to fulfill additional undisclosed requirements in order to use the charger.

I suspect someone is double dipping. I believe the car parks are owned by the hotels. The hotel enters some agreement with Tesla to install the chargers and also an agreement with ParkingEye to run the carpark. What the hotel may not consider is if the expectation of Tesla for access to the chargers is being ignored by the parking management.

Charging is not necessarily parking. You are actually 'shopping' (buying electricity) or attempting to fulfill an existing contract to a charge with electricity you have already 'paid for'.

How it is viewed by courts may be different, but this needs sorting urgently.

At Northampton I was so focused on sticking to the 30 minute charge limit included on the Tesla signage that I missed the secondary 'register within 10 minutes' notice. How many additional requirements is it reasonable to have to find signs for? One sign, all requirements set out, not restricting existing agreements.

I had timed maps showing exact arrive and departure routes and times but still both PE and the hotel did their best to force me to pay.

 

[Stuart1714]

Charging is not necessarily parking. You are actually 'shopping' (buying electricity) or attempting to fulfill an existing contract to a charge with electricity you have already 'paid for'.

How it is viewed by courts may be different, but this needs sorting urgently.

I agree with this, but I wouldn’t like to come up with a definition for the courts.

Is grabbing some electrons at a rail station car park while you take a trip on a train classed as parking or charging? Is stopping at a Supercharger classed as charging even though you may also use the nearby facilities such as shops or food / drink outlets?

 

[Battpower]

rail station car park while you take a trip on a train classed as parking

While there is charge flowing, there is undeniably something more than just parking taking place. If it is even parking would maybe depend on the nature of the transaction / contract. I certainly don't regard shopping at Tesco as ’short term hospitality’ while I'm in the store neither is it parking when you fill up with petrol.

There does seem a reasonably clear difference between being at a supercharger - especially if the car has free / bundled charging compared for the purpose of and while taking on energy (which is the purpose of those charging stations) and ’the car sitting idle’ while the occupants engage in a non-charging related task.

Paying at the point and time of delivery would also suggest that permission is necessarily in place for the transaction to take place unhindered, so the four-party deal between Tesla, the carpark owner / hotel, Parking Eye and the car owner needs clarification.

Imagine a hotel offered charging included in your room rate, then Tesla slapped an extra charge for using the charger covered by some small print on the charger!

 

[Bootneckshuffl]

I just got caught out by this as well. Used Scotch corner loads of times in the past with no bother, so didn't even consider there'd be a problem. Hotel reception didn't want to know and referred me to ParkingEye's appeals procedure.

I got the exact same response from them, absolutely not interested. I ended up paying the fine in the end.

 

[Zakalwe]

I agree with this, but I wouldn’t like to come up with a definition for the courts.

Is grabbing some electrons at a rail station car park while you take a trip on a train classed as parking or charging? Is stopping at a Supercharger classed as charging even though you may also use the nearby facilities such as shops or food / drink outlets?

The definition of parking has already been clarified by the courts. You are allowed a "grace period" whilst searching for a parking place which is about 10-12 minutes.

I got the exact same response from them, absolutely not interested. I ended up paying the fine in the end.

These are not fines. A private company, such as Parking Eye, cannot issue fines. These are spurious unsolicited invoices and need to be dealt with as such.
The hotel absolutely has the power to cancel the fine. After all, the hotels has contracted with the PPC to provide the service. Badgering the hotel's CEO directly, making a complaint via the Chairman's Office and posting on their social media feeds can also shame them into action. it certainly works with Morrisons Supermarkets.

At the same time, you need to follow the well established process that's detailed in the Money Saving Expert forum. Appeal to the PPC and get a POPLA referall when they inevitably turn the appeal down. Then appeal via POPLA and beat them using their own Code of Practice.

 

[Adopado]

...neither is it parking when you fill up with petrol.

That's the key comparison for me. The vehicle clearly needs to be stopped beside the pump or the charger so that it can be refuelled. Nobody ever suggests that you should ever be required to pay for your "parking" spot whilst stopped in front of the petrol pump, that would be absurd!

 

[Battpower]

The hotel absolutely has the power to cancel the fine.

That matches my experience. I suspect there is some pressure / obligation on the ’hotel' to give Parking Eye free reign to do as they fancy to get their money in every case.

Then appeal via POPLA and beat them using their own Code of Practice.

That is also what I did. Parking Eye kept bugging / threatening me right to the end. It was so lucky that in that case I kept screen shots of my failed attempts to pay.

The whole thing is a total racket imo.

 

[Battpower]

The vehicle clearly needs to be stopped beside the pump or the charger so that it can be refuelled

And indeed you pay for the privilege of stopping Infront of the pump since it is a necessary part of getting what you pay for.

I was so frustrated in my Northampton experience for exactly that reason. I stuck to the 30 minutes as 'allowed' by Tesla's signage to take the charge I had already contracted with Tesla that they will supply ’free and unlimited'.