Supercharging calculating...

[electrictorque]

So recently my 90% SOC dropped to 264 miles, used to be 274.

Decided to charge to 100% at a supercharger, plugged in with 83% SOC and it said it would take 25 minutes to 100%

After about 30 minutes the time remaining changed to calculating. Does that mean the battery is getting balanced?

It has been about 20 minutes and still shows calculating, the range is steady @ 296 and SOC @ 100% yet still charging..

 

[jjrandorin]

if you are trying to get a full charge and allow the battery to balance, you need to wait until it finishes (actually finishes). That could take 10 minutes or 30 minutes or even longer.

On a side note, I wonder if all the people who are having this "rated range drop" charge to 90%, every day. I have not experienced any loss at all over 11.5k miles (not a single mile lost), but I plug in every time my car hits my garage, and its set to 90% and I almost never change it.

I also have an 80 mile round trip daily commute.

I wonder how much of this "rated range drop" issue is related either to very short trips, or "charging to 80%", and / or "I only plug in every few days because I dont drive that much / dont have charging".

No idea but would be interesting to hear charging patterns for people who have this rated range loss and see if there is some correlation.

 

[Dr. J]

I wonder how much of this "rated range drop" issue is related either to very short trips, or "charging to 80%", and / or "I only plug in every few days because I dont drive that much / dont have charging".

A data point: i usually take short trips, I charge to between 70% and 80% (except rarely to 95%+ for road tripping), I only plug in every few days...and have experienced no rated range loss (it's still at 323, same as after the boost). Only 7,000 miles, though, so it may be coming.

These various reports of rated range loss could be normal variation, but we don't know what "normal" looks like on the Model 3 battery.

 

[KenC]

if you are trying to get a full charge and allow the battery to balance, you need to wait until it finishes (actually finishes). That could take 10 minutes or 30 minutes or even longer.

On a side note, I wonder if all the people who are having this "rated range drop" charge to 90%, every day. I have not experienced any loss at all over 11.5k miles (not a single mile lost), but I plug in every time my car hits my garage, and its set to 90% and I almost never change it.

I also have an 80 mile round trip daily commute.

I wonder how much of this "rated range drop" issue is related either to very short trips, or "charging to 80%", and / or "I only plug in every few days because I dont drive that much / dont have charging".

No idea but would be interesting to hear charging patterns for people who have this rated range loss and see if there is some correlation.

I only charge to 80%, only accidentally charged to 100% one time. Have used SC on occasion. Been down below 10% a few times. Never try to recalibrate. Always plug in at night.

At first, Stats showed alot of range variation before 2000 miles, as low as 290 miles. You can still see right around 2000 miles I had some range estimates below 300 miles. That's back when I charged to 90% SOC during Winter. I got my car in December. After I changed to 80% SOC charging, things seemed to improve. Now, the range estimate hovers between 308 and 312 miles, as you can see.

 

[jjrandorin]

Interesting information. Another thing I always wonder is, how many of the people reporting the range variation are using a third party app to do so, vs what the official tesla app (and the car itself) tells them when they charge to a given range.


@KenC what I mean is, not what stats app (which is what that looks like) reports, but what does the car actually charge to at a full charge when you charge to 100% and allow it to "finish" when it balances at a full charge?

 

[electrictorque]

Quick update
So it took just over one hour to charge from 83 to 100. It stayed with the calculating message a little over 30 minutes charging at very slow rate 4-5 miles per hour.

After it finished charging, the range was still 296.

Since it's not good to leave the battery at 100% for a long time I decided to go for a drive to bring the battery back down to around 90%.

I went on a 36.6 mile round trip, where 34 miles where strictly highway driving between 65 and 68 mph

According to the energy consumption app my range would be over 370 miles if I kept on driving in the same matter.

So there is a huge disconnect between the estimated range shown next to the little battery icon and what the energy consumption app says.

Which one is right?

Maybe one day I will take a portable generator with me and drive around until the battery goes down to almost zero to see what is the real range.

I usually charge to 90% and have short commute 8 miles each way.

I wonder if the short trips is the real cause for the computer to under estimate the real range. Maybe it's taking the vampire losses in consideration.

 

[ewoodrick]

Taking a car to 100% at a Supercharger isn't the best way to do it. Leave it on a slower charger for hours is my recommendation.

Leaving a car at 100% isn't a big deal for hours, days, or even week. It's months and years that probably isn't the best.

As to what is the right range, I believe that I can safely say that the one on the dash will essentially always be wrong, just about a guarantee.

Nothing is right, but the graphs are closer guesses. AFAIK the record at about 40mph is 600 miles

Range varies based upon driving habits. Roughly saying, below 60 mph, better than the dash. Above 70, worse than the dash.

 

[electrictorque]

Another interesting observation. So when I got home the car showed 89% SOC

now it's @ 91% gained 2% just by sitting there. Vampire charge.

 

[notAnExpert]

...
I wonder how much of this "rated range drop" issue is related either to very short trips, or "charging to 80%", and / or "I only plug in every few days because I dont drive that much / dont have charging".

No idea but would be interesting to hear charging patterns for people who have this rated range loss and see if there is some correlation.

At least in my case, there doesn't seem to be a correlation so far. However, my LR RWD bought in Nov '18 has only about 4000 miles. So take this with a grain of salt.

Except for one road trip when I charged to 100% in Jan, I typically charge to 70%, let it run down to about 30% (takes about 10-12 days) before plugging in. I almost always "urban" supercharge. The linearly extrapolated range has been 325 ± 3 miles since Tesla moved the range for LR RWD to 325 from 310.

 

[notAnExpert]

Interesting information. Another thing I always wonder is, how many of the people reporting the range variation are using a third party app to do so, vs what the official tesla app (and the car itself) tells them when they charge to a given range.
...

Third party apps such as Stats don't really do any calculation to determine current range or battery charge level. The Tesla API directly reports those numbers. In fact, you can query your car directly from your own computer using curl (or something similar) to get the data. For example, right at this moment querying my car with curl, the Tesla API returns a "battery_level" of 40 and "battery_range" of 130.18.

What apps like Stat do is extrapolate the reported data to battery level of 100% with a simple division. In my example above, that would be 130.18 divided by .4 = 325.45 miles at 100%.

The one caveat with this extrapolation is that Tesla API reports battery level as an integer although the range is reported with two decimal point precision. So my real battery level could be anywhere from 39.5 to 40.5 when it reports 40%. That can cause a rather wide swing when extrapolating to 100% battery level.

130.18/.395 = 329.57, which would be rounded to 330 miles for 100%
130.18/.405 = 321.43, which would be rounded to 321 miles for 100%.

That's a swing of 9 miles!

 

[KenC]

The range next to the battery icon is just a calculation using your SOC%age applied to whatever the EPA number is, so, let's say you have an EPA rated range of 310 miles. When you get to 85% SOC, the range will show 265 miles. It doesn't matter how you drive, it's solely based upon what the BMS thinks your SOC %age is. It's a "dumb" number. That's why lots of people like to use the %age, as opposed to the miles remaining number, as people are always confused by the miles remaining number not being accurate. Of course it isn't, it doesn't factor in how you're driving!

The consumption chart is factoring in your driving style. So, your Wh/m is 203, roughly 5 miles/kWh. Multiply by 75Wh, and you get ~375 miles as your range based upon your current driving. You drove 36.5miles, and the car is projecting an additional 346 miles, so 382.5 miles. That's the more accurate representation of your driving range.

Quick update
So it took just over one hour to charge from 83 to 100. It stayed with the calculating message a little over 30 minutes charging at very slow rate 4-5 miles per hour.

After it finished charging, the range was still 296.

Since it's not good to leave the battery at 100% for a long time I decided to go for a drive to bring the battery back down to around 90%.

I went on a 36.6 mile round trip, where 34 miles where strictly highway driving between 65 and 68 mph

According to the energy consumption app my range would be over 370 miles if I kept on driving in the same matter.

So there is a huge disconnect between the estimated range shown next to the little battery icon and what the energy consumption app says.

Which one is right?

Maybe one day I will take a portable generator with me and drive around until the battery goes down to almost zero to see what is the real range.

I usually charge to 90% and have short commute 8 miles each way.

I wonder if the short trips is the real cause for the computer to under estimate the real range. Maybe it's taking the vampire losses in consideration.

 

[darth_vad3r]

The one caveat with this extrapolation is that Tesla API reports battery level as an integer although the range is reported with two decimal point precision. So my real battery level could be anywhere from 39.5 to 40.5 when it reports 40%. That can cause a rather wide swing when extrapolating to 100% battery level.

130.18/.395 = 329.57, which would be rounded to 330 miles for 100%
130.18/.405 = 321.43, which would be rounded to 321 miles for 100%.

That's a swing of 9 miles!

Ya, that’s why I’d only use the numbers right after a charge ended at your target % since I would think the car stops charge at, e.g. 90.0%, if the target is “90” and not 89.5%.

Any other time you do it there’s a big error range like you noted.

 

[darth_vad3r]

The range next to the battery icon is just a calculation using your SOC%age applied to whatever the EPA number is, so, let's say you have an EPA rated range of 310 miles. When you get to 85% SOC, the range will show 265 miles. It doesn't matter how you drive, it's solely based upon what the BMS thinks your SOC %age is. It's a "dumb" number. That's why lots of people like to use the %age, as opposed to the miles remaining number, as people are always confused by the miles remaining number not being accurate. Of course it isn't, it doesn't factor in how you're driving!

The consumption chart is factoring in your driving style. So, your Wh/m is 203, roughly 5 miles/kWh. Multiply by 75Wh, and you get ~375 miles as your range based upon your current driving. You drove 36.5miles, and the car is projecting an additional 346 miles, so 382.5 miles. That's the more accurate representation of your driving range.

Agree, except the final sentence. It’s only more accurate if the next 3-400 miles of driving is at nearer to the same consumption that’s in the energy app than what the car’s internal constant used for the battery gauge is.

e.g. If you just drove a mainly all downhill or uphill trip, the energy app calculation is utter nonsense. Since you are unlikely to continue the rest of your driving at the same consumption. I’ve seen it say 999 range estimate before

 

[Darmie]

I understand the best way to determine state of battery is to fully charge and discharge, then re charge to determine capacity remaining.
The follow up is to read the nominal full pack
Note the changes with in a month. I need to take another reading and see where it's at.