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Supercharging cost same as GAS
- Thread starter lynnpt2001
- Start date
How many times has he been able to charge at home? Does he feel ripped off when you do?
You should cancel the Cybertruck then. Get rid of the MX too. Why drive or buy a vehicle you're going to constantly feel is not worth the carry cost? Kia and Hyundai are selling vehicles that would better suit your budget anyway.
supercharging price varies by region. Sometimes it's charged by kWh (fair) whereas other times it's per minute, with a price under 60kW power and a price above. In the per minute pricing, charging up at 250kW will cost you less. You can do the math and compare to your local gas prices, and those vary too.
The main difference is that an ICE car always pays the pump price whereas your EV typically pays the home electricity price. Supercharging is, for most people, for rare trips. That makes it more difficult to compare directly.
The main difference is that an ICE car always pays the pump price whereas your EV typically pays the home electricity price. Supercharging is, for most people, for rare trips. That makes it more difficult to compare directly.
RTPEV
Active Member
Well look at the SOC in the upper left corner of the image. The battery looks to be over 90% already...must have plugged in at 80% or 85%. Especially if this Supercharger is charging by the minute, this is not the way to Supercharge.
Try plugging in at 10% SOC and add 36 miles and I suspect you'll get a much better "deal".
The other comment I will make is that at a Supercharger you are paying for the convenience of being able to get that fast charge. It's not about the electricity you are buying. A lot of people like to compare the cost of Supercharging to what they get at home. Well, if charging at home is at a cost point that you like, then charge at home. If that's not practical because you need to charge at a remote location, then there you have it...that additional cost is giving you the convenience to be able to travel away from your home base.
Try plugging in at 10% SOC and add 36 miles and I suspect you'll get a much better "deal".
The other comment I will make is that at a Supercharger you are paying for the convenience of being able to get that fast charge. It's not about the electricity you are buying. A lot of people like to compare the cost of Supercharging to what they get at home. Well, if charging at home is at a cost point that you like, then charge at home. If that's not practical because you need to charge at a remote location, then there you have it...that additional cost is giving you the convenience to be able to travel away from your home base.
Using that info in the image and assuming the display is showing 3miles/1kwh, that'd be 12kwh of charge. $3 divided by 12kwh is only $0.25/kwh, which I haven't seen since I was in Virginia or places west. Ever since getting to Maryland and further north it's gone up to as much as $0.30/kwh.
But to your point, Supercharging isn't about cost of electricity. It's cost of availability, regardless of speed of charging. Several years ago Supercharging prices went up and it was stated that even with the increased costs the "fuel/mile" cost would still be comparable or less than internal combustion. I think that happened right before the Model 3 started deliveries because they were already seeing lines forming at some of the intracity California Supercharger locations, and were hoping to encourage more people to charge at home. Which frankly I don't understand why anyone buys an electric car if they can't charge it overnight where they park it.
It looks to me like this OP tried (but didnt succeed) to crop out the battery in the picture, because this is obviously a supercharger session that was STARTED when the car was at a high state of charge, like you say. Its also likely a supercharger that charges by the minute vs kWh, and at a high state of charge its going to be more expensive to do that.
TL ; DR, this is basically a post to push a specific "narrative" with data structured to try to present the narrative the OP wants to present, instead of what reality actually is. There is another name for that type of post, but, even though I am posting as myself and not as a moderator, if I say what I think this is, some will think I am saying it as a moderator.
I will leave to the imagination what I think a post designed to push a specific narrative, with information somewhat structured in such a way to present said narrative instead of what actually exists, might be called.
^^^^ This.
There are whole subs over on Reddit dedicated to the type of nonsense, Tesla bashing and validation the OP was looking for here. I guess I need to filter out these posts and not engage the trolls. This forum has much good actionable information and sharing of knowledge and ideas. I'll learn to stick with those threads and ignore the noise.
There are whole subs over on Reddit dedicated to the type of nonsense, Tesla bashing and validation the OP was looking for here. I guess I need to filter out these posts and not engage the trolls. This forum has much good actionable information and sharing of knowledge and ideas. I'll learn to stick with those threads and ignore the noise.
Furthermore, lynnpt2001's profile says they're in Pennsylvania. I've Supercharged at a couple places in PA and they were both $0.26/kwh. I would assume this Supercharging experience was in PA.
I wouldn't call it a ripoff. But it sure is more expensive than what we always hear about it being cheaper to operate an EV than a petrol car.
I wouldn't call it a ripoff. But it sure is more expensive than what we always hear about it being cheaper to operate an EV than a petrol car.
Well, that's because you get gas for cheap in the US. In a lot of other places around the world where gas prices are higher, the comparison is more favorable towards EVs. In Quebec, Canada with 1.39$ per liter, which amounts to like 5.15$ per gallon, the 10c per kWh I pay at home is a pretty good deal. Even 45c per minute at the supercharger (for over 60kW) doesn't look so bad. Europe have even higher gas prices, although they might have higher electricity as well.
Was not complaining or bashing anything. First time i ever supercharged this car. Was early to an appointment and across the street was a sc. Thought i would use this time to see what happened. Yes the battery wasn't that low, i didn't intentionally block that out. If that affects how much they charge for energy then there is anther item that could be improved. I was not aware that made any difference or why would it if you buy the electricity you need. No ill intentions was simply shocked at how much it cost for 36 miles of energy. No more than that
In some areas it is not possible to sell electricity by the kWh. I know it's true here for example, where only one (government) organization can sell electricity. Because of that, you are charged for a service, by the minute, to circumvent that law. If you look at all EVs and batteries in general, they can charge faster when they are empty and charging must slow down as you approach full capacity. It's not Tesla's fault, all batteries are like that. By the minute, it will cost you less per kWh if you pull more kW of energy. The only way to make this better is to be allowed to sell electricty per kWh everywhere. Each county/state/country needs to accept and change their laws. It's a slow process.
I too was dismayed by the cost of Supercharging (or public EV charging in general).
I've looked at electricity costs from a variety of EV charging companies and they are all pretty close to the same price, and using your example they're pricing it pretty comparable to petrol, based on vehicle consumption of 30 to 35 mpg, or just slightly under. I think they've done a lot of math to figure out how to make the installation of those pedestals worth it over probably a five year period. It's possible we might actually see prices come down, especially if they start including solar awnings over the charging stalls and make their own local power. But those installations aren't cheap either, and making the product cheaper won't help pay it off any sooner
In fairness, I bet that Sonata doesn't get 36mph on the interstate, which is where you'd likely be using Supercharging on your Tesla. So their MPG goes down, cost per mile goes up.
I don't think it's a ripoff, that's not the right word. Mostly I think the EV manufacturers, Tesla in particular, are very loose with their explanations of operational costs. They tend to quote numbers based on charging at home where electricity is super cheap, in town driving where the efficiency numbers are super high, and maintenance costs based on things you don't have to do with an EV that you do have to do with a gas car but omit the items that you still need to do, such as tire rotation, air filter replacement, etc.
In Arkansas I charge my Tesla at less than $0.06/kwh. The cheapest I've used a Supercharger was $0.22/kwh, the most has been $0.30/kwh. I've also charged it "for free" at places like hotels, grocery stores, colleges, and marinas.
The least I've seen gas prices during this time was about $2.50/g, and the most was $3.50/g. I've gotten a few "fuel credits" at grocery stores along the way that I actually couldn't use because I don't buy gas, but that certainly should be taken into consideration.
Multiple places here on TMC and other discussion forums around the web I've said that I would not own an electric vehicle if I couldn't charge it overnight where I regularly park it. Lots of people have disagreed with my statement, but honestly the biggest selling point for me with an EV is home charging both for operational cost reduction and actually making the car more convenient.
I disagree with the SOC. Looks to me that she is below the recommended 'charge up to' point (90%?). I've only used a supercharger once just to try it out which is the good thing about Tesla/MY. I only need SuperChargin for a trip. My one SuperCharge was similar though. I can't tell you the start or end SOC but my rated range was probably around 240. Just trying out a new SuperCharger they put in near me behind a Wawa. I plugged in, went inside and bought a coffee, came out and had 44 more miles. But it was also 3.72.
From my account:
12 kWh @ $0.31/kWh $3.72
and that 44 mi might be optimistic. I usually run around 260kw/mi
From my account:
12 kWh @ $0.31/kWh $3.72
and that 44 mi might be optimistic. I usually run around 260kw/mi
agreed. I just have a 14-50 but can go from almost empty to almost full overnight. I don't drive enough to require mid-day charging. The one place I do charge away from home is a chargpoint that is cheaper than the .175-195/kwh I pay at home.
TampaBruce
Member
Similar issue with my SC experiences, works out to about 0.10$/mile here in Tampa area. When compared to other EV chargepoints (no account, no credit card, no app to download, charging speed) I guess the convenience is worth it.
I think the payback for Tesla won’t be there for a while. There’s an 8 stall V3 site near where I live where the cost to Tesla is 21 cents per kWh on average (including all taxes and demand charges) and Tesla charges 38 cents per kWh. Typical use at this site is north of 60000 kWh per month at this site. While this sounds like a great profit margin this area is one of the cheapest electric providers in California and sites in California where it’s this cheap are probably in the single digits. For the vast majority of sites in the state the electric rates are much more expensive and are much closer to barely breaking even or perhaps operating at a slight loss. Electricity is just expensive and especially with the fact that demand charges are expensive with this type of service there is no easy answer to building out charging infrastructure without a lot of capital investment.
I’m sure it’s similar in other states where the kWh rate is cheaper than California but then again gas is cheaper than California. Either way it’s the same result: supercharging is probably the same cost as gas when assuming a 30ish MPG car.
As others have noted. The only way to make the cost savings add up is to do the majority of charging at home where it’s much much cheaper and you can even get to where it’s cheaper than fueling a Prius.
I’m sure it’s similar in other states where the kWh rate is cheaper than California but then again gas is cheaper than California. Either way it’s the same result: supercharging is probably the same cost as gas when assuming a 30ish MPG car.
As others have noted. The only way to make the cost savings add up is to do the majority of charging at home where it’s much much cheaper and you can even get to where it’s cheaper than fueling a Prius.
I've only used a super charger once. It was .31 / kWh. 12kWh for $3.72. It said it added 44 miles which seems about right.
At home I pay from .17+ to .19+ per kWh. So the super charger is close to double the price.
Last I looked gas it was around 3.30 but that was a couple weeks ago so maybe higher now but probably not topping 3.72.
Around town the Camry Hybrid generally gets in the mid 50s mpg.
EPA says eMPG is 121, but even if I use 230 watts per mile (what I need to do to get 326 per 'tank') and $3.30 / gallon I only calculate about 77 eMPG. for home charging. So at best supercharging may give me an equivalent of around 40 eMPG.
Bottom line is that for us super chargers are more expensive.
At home I pay from .17+ to .19+ per kWh. So the super charger is close to double the price.
Last I looked gas it was around 3.30 but that was a couple weeks ago so maybe higher now but probably not topping 3.72.
Around town the Camry Hybrid generally gets in the mid 50s mpg.
EPA says eMPG is 121, but even if I use 230 watts per mile (what I need to do to get 326 per 'tank') and $3.30 / gallon I only calculate about 77 eMPG. for home charging. So at best supercharging may give me an equivalent of around 40 eMPG.
Bottom line is that for us super chargers are more expensive.
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