Supercharging not up to hype?

[jcanoe]

With the free year of Supercharging, is it ok if I only use that to charge? I would only go up to 70-80%. Is that going to negatively affect the battery or do I need to mix in some home charging too?

Charging at a high rate also impacts the ability of the battery pack to retain it's original capacity over time. There is a battery engineering variable "C" that represents the capacity of the battery cell or battery pack. For the Model Y the current battery pack's total capacity is ~78kWh, the newer LG based battery pack that is now coming out has a capacity of 82kWh. When charging it is best for the battery to stay under 1 X C, or in the case of the Model Y under an ~80kW charging rate.

It turns out that Urban Superchargers (SC) have a 72kW charging rate. The Urban SC are lower powered than the SC you find on the highway routes that offer 120kW, 150kW and the newest capable of 250kW charging. So if you want to make frequent use of a SC and don't mind that it will take a bit longer to charge then seek out an Urban SC whereas on a road trip the route planner tools such as ABetterRoutePlanner would have you skip the slower Urban SC in favor of one that charged faster. Even if you charge at a rate higher than 1C it will be fine but at their fastest the 3rd generation SC are capable of 250kW. That would be more than 3C for the short amount of time, in reality about 6 minutes, that the charging would potentially be at close to the maximum rate before starting to taper down.

 

[2101Guy]

With the free year of Supercharging, is it ok if I only use that to charge? I would only go up to 70-80%. Is that going to negatively affect the battery or do I need to mix in some home charging too?

Supercharging is really designed for road trips, not to be relied on for "regular" usage. There are some that say you will do zero damage to the battery/will not impact overall battery degradation by supercharging regularly, but there are other documents (including some from Tesla) that says excessive use of supercharging will in fact, degrade the batteries over time.

I think its safe to say that most Tesla owners rely on home charging for their regular charging needs and supplement that with supercharging when needed.

I have free unlimited supercharging and a Supercharger thats 5 miles from me, and I still rely on my home charging for my charging needs and never use that SC, honestly.

 

[fjdomestic]

just took a SR+ from CT to Delray, FLA...having the SC's are beyond a gamechanger. my wife has a model Y which we did not take..i was amazed how many model Y's at the SC's. they outnumbered the 3's.

so i'm at our condo here and decided to try the chargepoint at the place. its nice to have i guess; but its like charging in my garage lol. at least 5 hours to go!

 

[2101Guy]

Great info here as well
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn...M8_A01_bicNpE-QUFbnNIn4RfaD2SgeZ5EMnhMD-79aGA

 

[Electroman]

I charged my Y recently from 20% to 90%. It charged at close to 140 kw from the beginning till around 50% ( around 160 miles range) and then started tapering and was above 100 kw till 65% and then around 70kw around 80%.

Use the SC only for road trips even if you have one nearby, and even if it is free.

 

[user212_nr]

My view -

I used to go to the gas station about every 10 days. Now I haven't been to a gas station for 3 years. I do take a few (but not many) road trips a year so I'm paying back some of that saved time and it's all good.

It adds about 30-40% to your total travel time, which is more than made up for by autopilot.

My feeling is though, if you live within 1 hour of a major airport, it becomes very difficult to justify any 18 hour drive (whether 18 hour in ICE or 25 hr in a Tesla). Airline tickets aren't that expensive if you find them at the right time, and its often break even/more expensive vs driving when you consider hotel stays, supercharging cost (minor, but not nothing). Add to that the value of your time (both your exhaustion from driving, and your lost time, days off), depreciation of your car and tires due to mileage, additional risk to your life and car (however "minor"), tickets, breakdowns, etc, it doesn't come close for me.

Lots of scenarios can make it work, like an extended stay somewhere, road trip with many stops, or if you have a car full of people, just love driving, etc. That's my take for now - airplanes. Its nothing to do with the EV charging experience, just for cars in general.

 

[juliusa]

It adds about 30-40% to your total travel time

Have you taken a road trip? Our 2013 MS adds about 30%, but our 2018 MX is faster.

A new LR M3, MX, MS would add much less:
Start with 350+ miles range in the morning by charging at home or at hotel.
Drive 2.5 hours, 175 miles, stop for 15 minute supercharge break.
Drive 2.5 hours, 175 miles, stop for 1 hour lunch break.
Drive 2.5 hours, 175 miles, stop for 30 minute afternoon break.
Drive 2.5 hours, 175 miles, stop for 1 hour dinner break.
Drive 2.5 hours, 175 miles, stop for 15 minute evening break
Drive 2.5 hours, 175 miles, stop for night.

That is 1000 miles in an 18 hour day. 15 hours driving, 3 hours charging.

ICE would be 15 hours driving, 1 hour for gas, food, and pit stops. Extra 2 hours in Tesla - about 15%. Much more civilized not eating in the car while driving, and 2.5 hour legs instead of 5 hours.

Plenty of reason to fly instead of drive - but adding a lot of time in Tesla vs ICE is not that big a deal anymore. 1000 miles or less I find the drive more convenient. Can bring plenty of "stuff", have your car at the destination, no airport and rental car hassles / delays.

 

[user212_nr]

Have you taken a road trip? Our 2013 MS adds about 30%, but our 2018 MX is faster..

For a particular drive,
Google Maps: 19 hrs 42 mins (1319 mi)
ABRP SR+: 25 hr 28 min (1351 miles)
ABRP LR: 24 hr 6 min (1339 miles)

If you take the 3 hours and divide by 24 hours, you get 15%, but there is 4-5.5 hours difference between the Google Maps quotes (and Google maps is conservative regarding driving speeds), so that comes out to 20% for the LR and 27.5% for the SR+.

The distance 1319 miles at 80 mph would only take 16.5 hrs. That equals 7.5 hours less than in the LR ABRP quote, 7.5 divided by 16 equals 46.5% increase on the Tesla LR. I do think 80 mph is a very reasonable average speed for some people (at times above, at times below), especially in a high performance car, but a long trip will pass through a few states where 75 is more reasonable.

I'm not trying to bash EVs by using the least favorable numbers, but I like to have the worst case numbers also.

 

[juliusa]

For a particular drive,

You must have a big gas tank in your ICE. And a big bladder.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

For a particular drive,
Google Maps: 19 hrs 42 mins (1319 mi)
ABRP SR+: 25 hr 28 min (1351 miles)
ABRP LR: 24 hr 6 min (1339 miles)

If you take the 3 hours and divide by 24 hours, you get 15%, but there is 4-5.5 hours difference between the Google Maps quotes (and Google maps is conservative regarding driving speeds), so that comes out to 20% for the LR and 27.5% for the SR+.

The distance 1319 miles at 80 mph would only take 16.5 hrs. That equals 7.5 hours less than in the LR ABRP quote, 7.5 divided by 16 equals 46.5% increase on the Tesla LR. I do think 80 mph is a very reasonable average speed for some people (at times above, at times below), especially in a high performance car, but a long trip will pass through a few states where 75 is more reasonable.

I'm not trying to bash EVs by using the least favorable numbers, but I like to have the worst case numbers also.

I drove from San Diego to Portland in my Model 3 Performance over the summer, starting at ~4:10AM and arriving at ~10:40PM. That's just under 19 hours.

Google Maps indicates that is a 16 hour 21 minute drive in an ICE (which I think would not be achievable in an ICE, actually, due to required stops for bathrooms and gasoline).

I think worst case the Tesla added about 1.5 hours to my trip time. I was actually only waiting on the car for perhaps one hour total.

I benefited from warm weather, which meant excellent efficiency, and 3 stops at 250kW chargers (I stopped 8 times to charge; I could have made that 7).

For the OP: Seems like a totally normal experience. Make sure to not pick a shared stall, and don't be afraid to change stalls if the one you're at isn't charging at the expected rate (which you'll get an understanding of with time). I change stalls all the time - especially at 150kW Superchargers - because about half of them are partially broken (only deliver 75kW or 112kW rather than 150kW). You really can't afford to be charging at 75kW when you should be charging at 150kW. So you have to move. But make it a very very quick move. I try to get to the Supercharger and be plugged in in 1 minute, and if I have to switch stalls, I try to complete the maneuver in under 45 seconds.

 

[user212_nr]

You must have a big gas tank in your ICE. And a big bladder.

Gas and rest stops on an ICE are really not that big a deal. Nowadays, you have hybrids with 600 miles range that can make a 1300 miles trip in 2-3 stops. And yes, you can hold it.

Besides, for long breaks, like a large meal, you don't get the optimal supercharge rates, so if you can't eat your food in 20-30 minutes, that extra time you spend is really wasted. On the other hand, if you do eat in 20 minutes, then its just a drop in the bucket on your ICE trip.

I don't have an ICE car so I get to pick? 2017 Kia Optima Hybrid is the ICE car that I would have, if I had an ICE car for the purposes of your example. 729 miles range.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

Go try the other guys, EvGo, EA, etc. You will have newfound admiration to the supercharge stations. I avoided even thinking about purchase Ford Mache because their charging network is 5 years behind. I experienced them in my previous car was a Chevy Bolt EV. Decent car, did a couple trips with it. Super glad to be in a Tesla, and on superchage network now. ...

Took a +2,700 mile trip in October in our Bolt (see photo in avatar), Cape Cod to south of Tucson AZ. Used mostly Electrify America DCFC. First few days were a horror. Failed units, non-functioning units. Last 2 1/2 days went smoothly (new equipment perhaps?).

Now also own a Tesla MY. And the Tesla Supercharger network is one of the main reasons for our purchase.

Rich

 

[juliusa]

2017 Kia Optima Hybrid is the ICE car that I would have

Enjoy the Kia.

 

[Johnny Vector]

Took a +2,700 mile trip in October in our Bolt (see photo in avatar), Cape Cod to south of Tucson AZ. Used mostly Electrify America DCFC. First few days were a horror. Failed units, non-functioning units. Last 2 1/2 days went smoothly (new equipment perhaps?).

Now also own a Tesla MY. And the Tesla Supercharger network is one of the main reasons for our purchase.

Rich

I salute you, sir! I had steeled myself to take our Bolt from Maryland to Maine this past summer, mapping out all the EA and EVGo chargers along the way, planning a meal stop next to a set of chargers, thinking about backup in case the one charger at a Hannafords was not working,... Then Tesla moved the MY release date from Q3 to Q2 and that was all she wrote. In the MY I spent maybe 20 minutes actually waiting for the car to charge compared to the time I would have spent in an ICE car, and at all points could have gone on to the next charger even in a case where an entire supercharger station was down.

Still have the Bolt (so now we're a pure-BEV family), as an around-town car and for when the world gets back to normal and my wife and I have to go separate places on a given day, but for long distance the Supercharger network is the winner by an order of magnitude. That will probably change eventually, but I suspect it'll be at least 2025 before I would want to take a non-Tesla on a road trip.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

...Still have the Bolt (so now we're a pure-BEV family), as an around-town car and for when the world gets back to normal and my wife and I have to go separate places on a given day, but for long distance the Supercharger network is the winner by an order of magnitude....

Same here! All EV now. The Bolt is a wonderful local runabout, but the Supercharger network is where it's at for actual distance travel in an EV!

Spouse at the very first DCFC charge. This one is a ChargePoint in RI. Used two ChargePoint units during the 2,700 mile long trip, both worked just fine.

Wife standing guard while the Bolt gets some juice during the trip. Walmart housed most of the Electrify America sites we went to. Very convenient locations. The gray wall is used to camouflage the location of the chargers (that was my theory anyway).

Heated discussion between wife and local regarding political differences. New Mexico stop.

 

[FredMertz]

A great analogy I saw on youtube was that chargers fill the battery like we fill a glass of water. Really fast to start, but the closer you get to the top, the slower you go so it doesn't spill.