No, as people keep saying you have to actually read the page. The rates listed on that page are the average for the entire country. Every single site can have a different rate. The only place to see the actual rate is to look it up in a Tesla that doesn't have free Supercharging. (I don't know if it will show up in the app or not.)
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Supercharging rates go WAY up!
- Thread starter iwannam3
- Start date
No, as people keep saying you have to actually read the page. The rates listed on that page are the average for the entire country. Every single site can have a different rate. The only place to see the actual rate is to look it up in a Tesla that doesn't have free Supercharging. (I don't know if it will show up in the app or not.)
Wow 7.5 cents per kWh at home.... I'm at 18 cents. And I'm still paying less for fuel than my old ICE. I would love to be paying 7.5c at home. That would be incredible savings. And.... you have solar at home according to your sig....
Easiest way I found is to get Mars on the display and then shut it off. All superchargers will be displayed for US & Canada. Zoom in and tap an icon for the rate.
If you are worrying about a $28 fill up in an X, you shouldn’t be driving one. A $100k BMW takes premium fuel, and I guarantee you it will cost more to drive 300miles in that BMW than it does to drive 300 miles in the X. And that is without the difference in maintenance costs.
I imagine that they could change without notice, as part of the rate is dependent on site utilization, and maybe they don't want to share all the details with the "competition". (I'm sure people would setup web scraping processes to monitor the daily changes per site very quickly.)
I personally have no problem with charging a fee, or some percentage above Teslas costs to pay for infrastructure and maintenance.
That being said I do have some concerns regarding the narrative that will spin off if the cost of "filling up" matches or is more than gas. It will be spun negatively.
PGE is the biggest utility in Ca by far, but rates vary by a virtual boundary line in some areas, which can really piss you off.
As an example, City of Roseville Utility has thier rates published but I dont understand how demand charges work. I wonder if someone could educate me on what the cost per month the Roseville supercharger might cost assuming some general variables. 50% occupied, average draw of 60kw etc.
That being said I do have some concerns regarding the narrative that will spin off if the cost of "filling up" matches or is more than gas. It will be spun negatively.
PGE is the biggest utility in Ca by far, but rates vary by a virtual boundary line in some areas, which can really piss you off.
As an example, City of Roseville Utility has thier rates published but I dont understand how demand charges work. I wonder if someone could educate me on what the cost per month the Roseville supercharger might cost assuming some general variables. 50% occupied, average draw of 60kw etc.
You just made the argument for not buying a Tesla. The base model 3 is far cheaper than an X and the cost to fill up will be comparable.
Demand charges are a measurement of the maximum kW you pulled over any single 15 minute snapshot of power over the month.
Assume that we are talking about a bank of 8 superchargers, sometime over the month they will all be full, or at least drawing 120 kW per 4 paired chargers.
The demand charges for this meter would be $5524 for the right to draw 480 kW through 4x2 charging stations during any single 15 minute period in the month. Demand charges are a huge portion of the bill and one reason power packs can be lucrative. If you can smooth out that demand peak with battery discharging you can save a huge portion of the bill.
Assume that we are talking about a bank of 8 superchargers, sometime over the month they will all be full, or at least drawing 120 kW per 4 paired chargers.
The demand charges for this meter would be $5524 for the right to draw 480 kW through 4x2 charging stations during any single 15 minute period in the month. Demand charges are a huge portion of the bill and one reason power packs can be lucrative. If you can smooth out that demand peak with battery discharging you can save a huge portion of the bill.
Gas is cheap right now, relatively at least. In the future as gas rises you’ll get back your cost adavatage, IF super charger prices stay the same.
Also, allegedly the EV’s cost less to maintain which should add into the cost advantage over an ICE.
I didn’t order on cost. I ordered because I liked the car. I got my Ford Focus because of cost and that needed two warranty transmission repairs.
Also, allegedly the EV’s cost less to maintain which should add into the cost advantage over an ICE.
I didn’t order on cost. I ordered because I liked the car. I got my Ford Focus because of cost and that needed two warranty transmission repairs.
mrbulk
Member
Unsure what the actual numbers are but I agree a secondary reason for hikes may be to “encourage” those who Supercharge in their home towns to finally spring for a home charging setup...provided it is even possible depending on the individual’s situation (rental, condo HOA hoops to jump through, etc.).
Let’s look at the cost of driving a Mazda 6 310 miles in combined driving. It gets 24mpg combined, which translates to ~13 gallons of fuel used. That costs ~$32 for 310 miles at $2.50 per gallon. A Model 3 RWD LR gets 310 miles of combined driving using ~75kWh of electricity. 75*$.31=$23.25. So the Model 3 is $9 less per fill up or ~28% cheaper than the Mazda 6. This does not include reduced maintenance costs. So... the Tesla is still significant cheaper to operate than an ICE even with these increased Supercharger costs. And this assumes every fill up is at a Supercharger, which is nowhere near true for most people.
Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Not sure anyone should be surprised that Tesla is raising Supercharger pricing.
In the beginning, with the original Roadster there was no supercharging. You charged at home or scrounged around for a welding company, a RV site or anyplace that you could get 240V.
Then the Model S was released and word was that an extra $2,000 was baked into the price to support charging at the new Supercharger stations.
When the Superchargers began to be a significant cost to Tesla they slowly weened owners off expecting free Superchargers for life. Car prices were moved down a bit and the FSC for life became a special item, only if you ordered by a certain date.
Then you were given a set amount of FSC to allow some long distance travel for free.
Then they instituted congestion charges for overstaying your charging time.
Then they eliminated FSC all together, except for people ordering within a certain time limit.
Then the FSC for life was eliminated and owners could no longer transfer their FSC for life to the next owner.
Now, only some early buyers are being Grandfathered in, but all the new buyers expect to pay for their Supercharging.
The pricing has always been a bit variable, but the trend is for the costs to go up.
Tesla has decided that the fairest thing, to the most people, is to reduce the vehicle pricing as low as profitably possible, and to charge those using the Superchargers a market price for the energy.
Destination chargers are similar. Each location can choose to charge for people pluging in, or often times offering it free as an inducemtent for gaining additional profitable patrons.
Just as the price of gas is different at each location, determined by profit and volume goals, as well as local taxes, operation costs and competitive pressures.
Owners will typically check out their charging options and choose the program that best serves their needs as far as cost, speed and convenience.
Final solution will be when most EVs are powered by Solar, charging will be rapid and convenient. Batteries will be used to modulate the peaks and valleys to make it most efficient.
In the beginning, with the original Roadster there was no supercharging. You charged at home or scrounged around for a welding company, a RV site or anyplace that you could get 240V.
Then the Model S was released and word was that an extra $2,000 was baked into the price to support charging at the new Supercharger stations.
When the Superchargers began to be a significant cost to Tesla they slowly weened owners off expecting free Superchargers for life. Car prices were moved down a bit and the FSC for life became a special item, only if you ordered by a certain date.
Then you were given a set amount of FSC to allow some long distance travel for free.
Then they instituted congestion charges for overstaying your charging time.
Then they eliminated FSC all together, except for people ordering within a certain time limit.
Then the FSC for life was eliminated and owners could no longer transfer their FSC for life to the next owner.
Now, only some early buyers are being Grandfathered in, but all the new buyers expect to pay for their Supercharging.
The pricing has always been a bit variable, but the trend is for the costs to go up.
Tesla has decided that the fairest thing, to the most people, is to reduce the vehicle pricing as low as profitably possible, and to charge those using the Superchargers a market price for the energy.
Destination chargers are similar. Each location can choose to charge for people pluging in, or often times offering it free as an inducemtent for gaining additional profitable patrons.
Just as the price of gas is different at each location, determined by profit and volume goals, as well as local taxes, operation costs and competitive pressures.
Owners will typically check out their charging options and choose the program that best serves their needs as far as cost, speed and convenience.
Final solution will be when most EVs are powered by Solar, charging will be rapid and convenient. Batteries will be used to modulate the peaks and valleys to make it most efficient.
Didn’t read all 9 pages but let’s put any notion to rest for the next several years:
Tesla is not a profitable company.
It may not be a non profit company but it’s not a for profit company. I don’t care about the corporation filing status I care about the quarterly balance sheets.
Since dollars are fungible, 1 penny in the green for charging does not mean a positive EPS for TSLA as a whole.
I suspect the rate increase is to reduce the expense of expansion and opex of the SC network, not make income off of the fleet.
Also, the SC team was disproportionately impacted by the layoffs.
That should tell you something.
Tesla is not a profitable company.
It may not be a non profit company but it’s not a for profit company. I don’t care about the corporation filing status I care about the quarterly balance sheets.
Since dollars are fungible, 1 penny in the green for charging does not mean a positive EPS for TSLA as a whole.
I suspect the rate increase is to reduce the expense of expansion and opex of the SC network, not make income off of the fleet.
Also, the SC team was disproportionately impacted by the layoffs.
That should tell you something.
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Merrill
Merrill
We
In California the last time I saw gas at $2.50 per gallon was 30 years ago.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Actually they were around $1.80 about 10 years ago.
Right now there's an oil oversupply, not least because of the fracking in North America. Not so sure if the prices will go up again anytime soon.
Great, the Tesla is cheaper to drive than a 24mpg gas guzzler . Again, you are giving automakers the case to not buy a tesla. Replace Mazda 6 with something like the Honda Accord Hybrid Performance.
Cheap gas goes both ways. Right now, natural gas is cheap as well. That generates the electricity.
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