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Sweeping left curve, I have P3d-, I find I have to adjust my steering inputs

tm3p-fan

Member
Sep 19, 2019
76
20
FL
...do others have this feeling too. I going around 65+mph. In all fairness, this is my 1st awd, I've driven rwds and fwds all my life. I've had Porsches, GTIs, and I was able to smoothly negotiate these sweeping curves...like the cloverleaf entrance & exits in Florida.

In the P3d-, it is not the same, obviously. I guess I have to relearn how to steer more smoothly. Would installing swaybars &/or coilovers give a better neutral "feel"?

Or is it just me, needing to get use to the awd...or both?
 

afadeev

Member
Feb 28, 2019
694
629
NYC
...do others have this feeling too. I going around 65+mph.

Curves vary - some are constant radius, many are not.
TM3 steering is a bit too sensitive and numb, but is otherwise linear and predictable.

In all fairness, this is my 1st awd, I've driven rwds and fwds all my life. I've had Porsches, GTIs, and I was able to smoothly negotiate these sweeping curves...like the cloverleaf entrance & exits in Florida.

Method of propulsion has no impact on steering, unless you like to practice throttle steering. Which you can not do in a Tesla, as it's traction control is overly aggressive, and can't be turned off.
Some higher-end cars do 4WD steering, but TM3 does not.

In the P3d-, it is not the same, obviously. I guess I have to relearn how to steer more smoothly. Would installing swaybars &/or coilovers give a better neutral "feel"?

Or is it just me, needing to get use to the awd...or both?

Some of it is "just you".
Unless you are at the limit of adhesion during a turn, suspension upgrades won't do you much good.
TM3 can certainly use stiffer springs with properly valved coil-overs, plus more rubber on the road, but that's an entirely separate thread from steering feel discussion.
Suspension upgrades wont effect steering angle input, or response rate.

a

P.S.: BTW, there is no official Tesla model designation "P3d-", so I assume you are talking AWD TM3?
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,098
Vernon, BC, Canada
@afadeev The unofficial "P3D-" means a LR AWD with the Performance bits unlocked (higher acceleration and Track Mode).

Anyhow, what steering mode are you using? I personally found Comfort difficult and too numb in exactly what you are describing.
 

afadeev

Member
Feb 28, 2019
694
629
NYC
@afadeev The unofficial "P3D-" means a LR AWD with the Performance bits unlocked (higher acceleration and Track Mode).

So AWD with slightly faster acceleration, all-season tires, and default floaty suspension?
BTW, that floaty suspension was one of the primary reasons I upgrade to Performance pack (plus decent tires), as the handling was just way too Cadillac-ish. If you encounter road dips during your sweepers, bouncing up and down through the turn will effect your suspension geometry, and steering angles!


Anyhow, what steering mode are you using? I personally found Comfort difficult and too numb in exactly what you are describing.

Since steering settings (Comfort/Standard/Sport) only adjust the effort required to turn the wheel, and have no practical impact on steering ratio, I've played with all three and settled on "standard".

These settings made zero difference to me in terms of steering feedback or driving enjoyment, other than "Sport" was needlessly tiring, and mid-ground was the last setting I tried and didn't dislike.

I certainly wish the steering provided more road feedback than it does, but than again, many modern electric steering racks are as numb as Tesla's. Mercedes and Caddy seam to have found a way around that limitation, and preserved decent steering feel with electric racks, but Tesla and BMW didn't.
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,098
Vernon, BC, Canada
So AWD with slightly faster acceleration, all-season tires, and default floaty suspension?
BTW, that floaty suspension was one of the primary reasons I upgrade to Performance pack (plus decent tires), as the handling was just way too Cadillac-ish. If you encounter road dips during your sweepers, bouncing up and down through the turn will effect your suspension geometry, and steering angles!




Since steering settings (Comfort/Standard/Sport) only adjust the effort required to turn the wheel, and have no practical impact on steering ratio, I've played with all three and settled on "standard".

These settings made zero difference to me in terms of steering feedback or driving enjoyment, other than "Sport" was needlessly tiring, and mid-ground was the last setting I tried and didn't dislike.

I certainly wish the steering provided more road feedback than it does, but than again, many modern electric steering racks are as numb as Tesla's. Mercedes and Caddy seam to have found a way around that limitation, and preserved decent steering feel with electric racks, but Tesla and BMW didn't.

I suppose it has the default suspension yes, but I would hardly describe it as floaty. It's certainly stiffer than a lot of people like for an everyday driver.

It's also not slightly faster, it's a lot quicker off the line. At highway speeds they're about the same.

The steering in the Model 3 is the first electric power steering I've said "hey, this actually isn't bad". I test drove just about every vehicle I could in 2015 when I was car shopping. Nearly all were electric power, and those that were felt completely numb and overpowered (including the car I ended up buying). Standard setting is what I use as well.
 

AndrewAllen

Member
Mar 19, 2019
211
135
Gilbert, AZ
I find that track mode makes the steering feel much more responsive. Track mode does nothing to change the steering, but I think it’s the traction control items that turn off allow the car to steer more aggressively.

I just wish I could turn it on while moving. Sometimes I just want to turn it on without stopping.
 

SammichLover

Banned
Dec 8, 2018
2,618
1,542
Yup
Which you can not do in a Tesla, as it's traction control is overly aggressive, and can't be turned off.
Lifting up on the accelerator has a meaningful impact on turns when you are pushing the AWD.

Also, you can get the AWD into modest extended oversteer by following that with a hard press back down to the floor. How much you have to push to get there depends on your tires & road surface but it is possible to “drift” modestly.
 

tm3p-fan

Member
Sep 19, 2019
76
20
FL
Curves vary - some are constant radius, many are not.
TM3 steering is a bit too sensitive and numb, but is otherwise linear and predictable.



Method of propulsion has no impact on steering, unless you like to practice throttle steering. Which you can not do in a Tesla, as it's traction control is overly aggressive, and can't be turned off.
Some higher-end cars do 4WD steering, but TM3 does not.



Some of it is "just you".
Unless you are at the limit of adhesion during a turn, suspension upgrades won't do you much good.
TM3 can certainly use stiffer springs with properly valved coil-overs, plus more rubber on the road, but that's an entirely separate thread from steering feel discussion.
Suspension upgrades wont effect steering angle input, or response rate.

a

P.S.: BTW, there is no official Tesla model designation "P3d-", so I assume you are talking AWD TM3?

I have the Performance stealth.

I believe since I have awd, I may have to gauge my steering input more cautiously since the steering is so responsive to very little input.

I've done about 5 of these on/off ramps total but the frequency was not back to back, twas over a 3 week span, hence, I'm not able to get the right feel and learn how to gauge the right amount of steering input. And, to make it more challenging, there is a medium size downhill dip right in the arc of the curve which complicated the manoeuver especially at 60+ mph.

This is where doing some track time may help. The stealth does have track mode but driving on public roads and remembering to put the car in track mode before approaching the cloverleaf's has not been something I considered.

Nevertheless, it's definitely different than driving my lowered Clk55 and the Porsche in the cloverleaf entrance/exits.

Again, maybe it's me and I need more time...maybe doing some autocross. An added tidbit is that the Stealth suspension may not be as planted too.
 

tm3p-fan

Member
Sep 19, 2019
76
20
FL
@afadeev The unofficial "P3D-" means a LR AWD with the Performance bits unlocked (higher acceleration and Track Mode).

Anyhow, what steering mode are you using? I personally found Comfort difficult and too numb in exactly what you are describing.
I'm driving leisurely to and from work in heavy traffic so most of the time I'm in comfort mode... the sweeping curves occur when I'm exiting from one highway and entering another.
 

tm3p-fan

Member
Sep 19, 2019
76
20
FL
Curves vary - some are constant radius, many are not.
TM3 steering is a bit too sensitive and numb, but is otherwise linear and predictable.



Method of propulsion has no impact on steering, unless you like to practice throttle steering. Which you can not do in a Tesla, as it's traction control is overly aggressive, and can't be turned off.
Some higher-end cars do 4WD steering, but TM3 does not.



Some of it is "just you".
Unless you are at the limit of adhesion during a turn, suspension upgrades won't do you much good.
TM3 can certainly use stiffer springs with properly valved coil-overs, plus more rubber on the road, but that's an entirely separate thread from steering feel discussion.
Suspension upgrades wont effect steering angle input, or response rate.

a

P.S.: BTW, there is no official Tesla model designation "P3d-", so I assume you are talking AWD TM3?

I have the Performance stealth.

I believe since I have awd, I may have to gauge my steering input more cautiously since the steering is so responsive to very little input.

I've done about 5 of these on/off ramps total but the frequency was not back to back, twas over a 3 week span, hence, I'm not able to get the right feel and learn how to gauge the right amount of steering input. And, to make it more challenging, there is a medium size downhill dip right in the arc of the curve which complicated the manoeuver especially at 60+ mph.

This is where doing some track time may help. The stealth does have track mode but driving on public roads and remembering to put the car in track mode before approaching the cloverleaf's has not been something I considered.

Nevertheless, it's definitely different than driving my lowered Clk55 and the Porsche in the cloverleaf entrance/exits.

Again, maybe it's me and I need more time...maybe doing some autocross. An added tidbit is that the Stealth suspension may not be as planted too.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,379
73,040
Maple Falls, WA
...do others have this feeling too. I going around 65+mph. In all fairness, this is my 1st awd, I've driven rwds and fwds all my life. I've had Porsches, GTIs, and I was able to smoothly negotiate these sweeping curves...like the cloverleaf entrance & exits in Florida.

In the P3d-, it is not the same, obviously. I guess I have to relearn how to steer more smoothly. Would installing swaybars &/or coilovers give a better neutral "feel"?

Or is it just me, needing to get use to the awd...or both?

I've found the 18" tires work best for hard cornering when inflated a bit above the 42 psi cold listed on the doorjamb. It gives a more precise steering response and actually increases grip a bit. Now that colder weather is here it's time to air those tires up to proper inflation pressures.
 

holmgang

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,299
1,315
eu
I believe since I have awd, I may have to gauge my steering input more cautiously since the steering is so responsive to very little input.
How quick the steering is not a matter of driven wheels, but of steering ratio (well ,electronic programming now). And I dont believe Tesla has variable steering ratio - that changes ratio with speeds. My BMW xDrive didnt steer any different than most cars.

Its possible if you were cornering really hard, the car was deploying some sort of torque vectoring, which could tighten the line by doing things like braking inside wheels. Which means being around the threshold, your cornering radii was actively changing. Maybe. I dont know if Tesla is using any such thing.
 

StealthP3D

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2018
9,379
73,040
Maple Falls, WA
How quick the steering is not a matter of driven wheels, but of steering ratio (well ,electronic programming now). And I dont believe Tesla has variable steering ratio - that changes ratio with speeds.

The Model 3 has a mechanical rack and pinion steering system that is power boosted with a electric motor instead of a hydraulic pump like on most older gas cars with power assist. In other words, the steering ratio is mechanically fixed (not programmable). The only thing that's adjustable is the amount of boost (which can be adjusted in the menu system under "Driving").

The steering rack is one of the most responsive that I have experienced, it's set up to turn a lot with a minimum amount of input. So much so that many people find themselves running over the curb when turning around a tight corner at slow speeds. It takes a while to adjust. After that, other cars just feel unresponsive. I like the steering on the Model 3 and while it does isolate you from the road somewhat, I find it isolates less than most cars with power steering that I've driven. It actually feels pretty direct. Not Mazda Miata direct, but close.
 
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lotusland

Member
Jun 30, 2011
304
358
My P3D- tracks very precisely. I love the steering feel and the overall handling of the car, in sweepers and all other kinds of turns. I have not gotten it to the auto-x yet but it is on my to-do list. My last car was a Lotus.

I agree the settings do not impact anything other than force required to turn the wheel. I prefer the heavier setting.
 

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